Kit 21 Lap of honor??

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Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  highpressure on Fri 28 Oct 2011, 8:59 am

Kit 21 looks great lots of stuff to look good and make the crank look busy. Need advice on how the best way to lap the eccentrics is. Sadly only one of the four on mine goes into the strap and fits well and rotates relatively easily, on the other three the straps wont go round the eccentrics at all.

Having not had any experience of "fitting" anything and having been royally lambasted at taking files to delicates bits of engineering I want to ask the best method for lapping the straps in. I can only visualise holding the eccentric in a vice ( with wood to stop damaging the surface ) and then holding one half of the strap and "rubbing" it round the radius with paste inside until its fits. I have given this a try on one half and it seems to be working but it is really awkward and difficult to do so as the strap keeps jamming up and wondered what the "text book" method is.

Your thoughts....

Kev.

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  Rickster on Fri 28 Oct 2011, 2:09 pm

Hi Kev,

I tried each of the four eccentrics in one strap for the best fit before moving onto the next . By process of elimination I got a great fit on all of them without any lapping/filling or fitting. They all turn freel, but I can just feel a slight rub where the drilling for the oil hole has a burr around the edges, that's all. I will try to polish this out with the Dremel and some metal polish. Hope this helps.

cheers

Rick

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  highpressure on Sat 29 Oct 2011, 7:20 am

Had already thought of that after the post, now have two that fit, one OK, one stiff. still two that the strap wont even fit on. Perhaps this will get a few more replies once others have recieved kits and fitted them. I am going to my local engineering club open afternoon tomorrow so might get some pointers there.

Cheers Kev.

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  lynnr on Sat 29 Oct 2011, 8:26 am

Fit of straps
Hi all. 1 strap loose but not sloppy. 2 reasonably tight and one lock up. Tried all combos.

Tomorrow I am going to get some valve lapping compund. Mount the crank on end in the workmate. Paste up the straps and start rotating them one at a time. The paste will do its work and make each strap fit the excentric. Should not take too long to accomplish. Then a good clean off with oily rag.

Tip. Fit the straps and rods before putting the crank back in to position. Otherwise you can not get the bolts on.

On fitting the excentrics to the crank. Make sure the excentrics are not warm as when you try to fit they hit the cold crank and shrink. My keys were very tight. I needed to give them a fettling.

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  highpressure on Sat 29 Oct 2011, 9:21 am

Been to see a friend at the end of the road (literally!!) who has built a batch one Burrell and the current Foden. He has fitted these before and his opinion is that they are too tight even for lapping considering one wont even go into the strap. The tightness is due to the width of the "shoulders" as they are catching before the outer radius hits the strap. He said you couldnt lap them if you wanted to as they cant rotate and they would need just a few thou off the eccentric which needs to go on a lathe. I need to speak to STW on Monday to see how to proceed.

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  highpressure on Sat 05 Nov 2011, 1:23 am

Hi Lynn,

When you say the keys were tight do you mean width in the slot or height above the shaft?. I cant get the eccentric over the key in the slot it appears to be too high and i need to use the dreaded file!!!! What a Face to bring it down to get the thing to fit. Is that what you had to do with yours??

Cheers Kev.

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  lynnr on Sat 05 Nov 2011, 9:17 am

I had to shave the top of the key in the LP side using a draw file action. Took about 10 minutes to do.

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  highpressure on Sat 05 Nov 2011, 9:57 am

Yeah I finally got fed up with it today and took to it and managed to get the eccentrics on. Only problem is I have been trying to lap them in gently (i.e. not with lapping compound but with Auto sol metal polish ) and whilst it has been reasonably succesful it has taken most of the afternoon and kills your hands trying to hold onto the strap. Then the replacement straps arrived from STW today and whilst they at least go together round the eccentric they have no movement at all so are going to be even more difficult to get free. Trouble is it is so difficult to manipulate this stuff, the crank is in the vice but with it painted there isnt that much to hold it by and the paint already has a chip now.

I thought it had all been going too well with the previous kits, this is exactly what tries my patience and makes me think I shall be glad as soon as this bit is over, heavy awkward stuff that resists attempts to make it fit doesnt float my boat Mad Mad . I'd almost be tempted to give it to someone at my local engineering club and pay them to get them to fit and I just put them on.....

In fact thats not a bad idea....

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  chop on Sat 05 Nov 2011, 10:20 am

Just thought i would mention that i bought the lapping kit that was recommended in the kit notes . Got it from seddon & black. Made doing the big ends,main bearings and straps a breeze. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  highpressure on Sat 05 Nov 2011, 10:48 am

yeah but how did you hold the straps?? Did you attach something to act as a lever, I'm fed up with ripping my already sore fingers up. Mains and big ends werent a problem, just these awkward *****ing things.

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  chop on Sat 05 Nov 2011, 11:07 am

Stood the crank on end in the vice (woodwporking vice with wooden jaws) fitted the first eccentric over the key then loaded the strap with lapping compound pushed together with hands then rotate oneway then then other. Did three with just medium paste and one that was so tight it would not go together with coarse then medium.

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  chop on Sat 05 Nov 2011, 11:11 am

With the right stuff it takes of the tight bits very fast. Took me about an hour for all four and they are now a perfect fit. Had more problems with fitted bolts being very tight.

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  highpressure on Sat 05 Nov 2011, 11:25 am

Ah yes the strap bolts were very tight but I put them in a hand held electric drill then held a bit of 600 grit wet and dry and span them round. Cleaned them up a treat and then they just go through easy. Cant find the stuff on seddan and black website do you know what its called??

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  chop on Sat 05 Nov 2011, 11:52 am

Hope you didn't make them to loose as they are surposed to be tight. I just rang them and got the kit next day.

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  chop on Sat 05 Nov 2011, 11:57 am

Sorry timesaver lapping compound kit. Its not grinding paste as this stuff is non embedding there is a bloke in scotland that sells it but only full tins. So 200 for the 4 grades you get.was wondering how i was going to do the bearings till steve said that seddon & black did it.

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Record lap times!!

Post  highpressure on Thu 10 Nov 2011, 9:24 am

Well I got the lapping kit recommended from Seddons and sure enough it does JUST what it says on the tin.... "timesaver lapping compound". Two hours later the straps are nicley fitted and even redone the main bearings.Throughly recommended and leaves no cutting compound after use.

We should have all got together to buy just one load of this stuff, times are hard here and 56 quid for four grades most of which isnt needed, which I suspect I only needed for this operation smarts a bit. To this end anyone who is following the build a few kits behind can get hold of me and we can sort something out for a kit with more than 80% of it left at a better price, we can do each other a favour. Andy, you spring to mind being close by....

Working on final painting and major reassmbly shortly, then I can join the rogues gallery of builders trying to out do each other tongue tongue

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  the coleman on Fri 11 Nov 2011, 7:01 am

Thanks kev some way behind you guys but will contact you as and when its needed..
Andy

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  highpressure on Fri 11 Nov 2011, 8:43 am

Cheers Andy, it will sit here on a shelf now and doesnt go off!!! When I've got all the bits back together you'll need to pop over and see how its coming on.

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  Seddon & Black on Fri 11 Nov 2011, 9:07 am

Good afternoon all.

Joe Black here from Seddon & Black Consumables. First of all, what a brilliant resource you've got here with this site! I hope you don't mind me posting.

Your thread was highlighted to me earlier, so I thought I'd join the forum to let you know, Timesaver is now on the website. As a new forum user, I can't post a link, but just search for Seddon & Black Consumables and then "Timesaver Lapping Compound".

The product is getting great results from everyone who's tried it and we're awaiting new stock of full and green 1/2 kits. All 1lb tins are currently on the shelf and a few yellow 1/2 kits, the full kits and green kits having been sold out!

You will find on our website a link to an electronic copy of the Timesaver Lapping Compound information booklet which makes interesting reading and gives you all the information you'll need.

If Tony or I can be of any assistance, our details are (should be) below, although as a new member I can't add email addresses.

Have a great weekend,

Joe

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  lynnr on Mon 05 Dec 2011, 8:17 am

Just ordered the yellow 1/2 set

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Excellent stuff

Post  lynnr on Sat 10 Dec 2011, 11:46 am

Yes. Timesaver lapping compound. WONDERFUL Stuff. Just done the eccentrics.

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  highpressure on Sun 11 Dec 2011, 12:24 am

Good news, if its anything like mine they should now feel silky smooth and rotate with ease. Plus it is as it calls itself TIMESAVER, should have been a relatively quick job.

Do the other bearings as well, I even used it on the steering bushes and the vavle rod bushes in the weighshaft.

Kev

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  bjwlancashire on Mon 19 Dec 2011, 2:34 am

Another order for Seddon & Black!!! I/2 yellow kit purchased in Lancashire for anyone local who wants to share it!!!! Big Shaun, how about you??

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

Post  Tim Watson on Tue 27 Dec 2011, 4:29 am

Just started on the valve gear kit. Noticed that the grub screw for both the LP eccentrics did not get to the bottom of the hole. If you tightened it you might think that it was OK but it didn't get through the end. Easily rectified by running a tap down the hole.

If you have fitted the eccentrics and didn't check them and don't want to remove them, then it might pay to slip off the straps and slip in a very short length of rod into the hole to act as a pressure pad. If your LP eccentrics are rock solid then probably no need to worry.

Tim

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Re: Kit 21 Lap of honor??

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