Rob & Tash Showmans

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Kevster on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:41 am

Rob,
Im not sure I have read this right but are you trying to get all three gears lined up all the way round?
This cant hapoen ,you only need one gear at a time .
Could be I have mis understood your explanation though.
Kev

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Robfishman on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:51 am

Thanks Kev

When I turn the flywheel in gear so all rotates I then can't change gear till the gold line is back at top dead centre.  If this is correct then great but in my mind I should still be able to change gear otherwise I'll have to make sure I stop in exactly the right spot ?

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Kevster on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 1:57 am

Is the 2nd shaft gear cluster running true?
Maybe your mesh is too deep ?
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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Robfishman on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 2:01 am

Kev

Yes seems to be fine. Rather than be to deep they don't aline.


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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Kevster on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 2:07 am

You should with a small amount of flywheel movement to align the gears select any gear in any position not just in one
point of the circumference.
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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Tony King on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 3:19 am

I had a similar problem with my gears, I could only get them to engage at certain points of rotation. I cured the situation by putting a shim under the crankshaft bearing block on the gear side of the crankshaft. This effectively moves the crankshaft gears (very slightly!!) away from the second shaft gears & allows them to engage freely! It's because there may well be a slightest bit of eccentricity in the gears, which causes them to bind at certain parts in their rotation!

Try it & I think Your problem will go away!!

Regards,
Tony


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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Robfishman on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 4:02 am

Thanks but the problem I have is that  In one location of the main drive the gear change works perfectly.  However move it a few degrees and it doesn't. How do you set it up to work in all positions.

Image 1 all line up so can change gear with ease.

Untitled
by Rob Fish, on Flickr

When put in 3rd gear and the crank rotated a few degrees they are no longer aligned. The gold mark on the drive shows how far it's moved. When this is top dead centre they are all in alignment.  Here I can only select third, second and first don't line up to select.

Untitled by Rob Fish, on Flickr

I've  Spent all day yesterday and this morning  trying different positions and still not right.

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  lynnr on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 5:17 am

Shim the bearing.

Otherwise there will alway be a bit of palms no the flywheel to get gear selection. Just the same on full size.

Other than not. Crystal will change gear without palming. Other says she does not want to do at all.

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Tony King on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 11:18 am

Hi Kev,

I think we may possibly be talking at cross purposes here!...Are You trying to engage all three gears at the same time?... This would give the scenario You're explaining?.... Only one set of gears will be engaged/inline at any one time, when You fit the gear levers, they are designed so You can't mesh more than one gear at a time...If You do, the whole setup locks up solid!...It's not like a "modern" constant mesh gearbox where gears can be changed on the move... You HAVE to stop engine rotation to change gear!..I hope I'm not insulting Your knowledge by barking up the wrong tree here!!

Regards,
Tony


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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Kevster on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 2:21 pm

Hi Tony,
Think you mean Rob lol
You have described exactly the scenario I posted earlier.
I wasnt sure if Rob meant trying to engage all at once too.
Kev

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Tony King on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 2:28 pm

Apologies Kev, yes I mean Rob!!... & Yah I realise You & I are thinking along the same lines..I wonder if we're right?

regards,
Tony

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Robfishman on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 3:47 pm

I thinks it's the way I've explained it. I can only change gear if I rotate the flywheel so the gear lines up to mesh. Only then can I change gear. There is only one point on the circumference of the main drive gears where they line up to change gear without rotating the flywheel.

Is this correct, if so then great but I've not had to do this on other minatures I've driven or on full size.

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Kevster on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 10:13 pm

Rob,
could you post a video of whats happening, woukd be good to see whats going on.
Kev

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Tony King on Sun 26 Jun 2016, 11:32 pm

Hi Rob,

In one of the pictures above You show all three gears meshing, that is a situation which will never happen, so I don't think You have a problem!

Regards,
Tony

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Kevster on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 12:45 am

Tony,
They are my thoughts too.
Kev

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Robfishman on Mon 27 Jun 2016, 12:59 pm

Thanks everyone, I think I've tried every combination and I still have to rotate the flywheel to change between the gears. I'll leave it as it is and may be look at it again at some point in the future. Onwards towards completion. 😊

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Robfishman on Wed 29 Jun 2016, 2:02 pm

Getting ready to lift the engine off its trolley, fit the wheel, and sit it on them for the first time next weekend. Quite excited but also nervous, it's a heavy lump to lift.

To other showmans builders what have you used to lift it and fit the wheels. I'm thinking of an engine hoist but wonder if the legs will be in the way of putting it down?

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Tony King on Wed 29 Jun 2016, 11:57 pm

I simply use a trolley jack. When jacking up under the tender, I use a piece of strong plywood with cloth on it, to stop damage to paintwork & to spread the load.
The engine will be very unstable, so as I jack it up I put sturdy timber planks under the boiler foundation ring to stop it tipping. When high enough fit the wheels & reverse the process till it sits on its wheels. It's handy to have someone to assist on the stability issue if possible.. I didn't & managed OK!

The front end is an easy lift if the rear wheels are in place, as the engine is now very stable. Jack under the front axle pivot post.

This may not be possible for You Rob, depending on how Your engine sits on its building cradle, as positioning of the jack maybe a problem?

Hope this helps!

Regards,
Tony

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  sonick45 on Thu 30 Jun 2016, 9:06 am

I jack mine up the same as i do the full size ones. i

This way creates a more stable platform if you have the front axle on.

find a length of 2/4 or similar. I use a lump of 75mm fence post.
make sure it is the same length as the axle or thereabouts.

Place the timber under the tow bracket pushed up against the back of the tender.

now place two bottle jacks or car jacks under the timber wide enough to give you a stable tender.

This way when your pushing and rotating the wheels you wont topple the engine over.

For added security I also place axle stands under the axles and only remove the one in the way when im absolutely sure everything is stable.

belt and braces but better to be safe than have an engine on its side.

" />

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Robfishman on Thu 30 Jun 2016, 1:22 pm

Thanks both, that's very useful. My front wheels are fitted and the back is sat on a cradle. Both sugestions will be great and better than buying a engine hoist.

Many thanks

Rob

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Tony King on Thu 30 Jun 2016, 1:50 pm

Hi Rob,

I forgot to say that before You fit wheels, You should let the engine sit on blocks under the foundation ring, ie let the jack off, thus it all becomes completely stable & won't move while You struggle with wheels!! Ha!

Have fun!

Regards,
Tony

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Robfishman on Thu 07 Jul 2016, 6:29 am

Thanks Tony / Nick  -  It is now off the trolley and progress is going well.  The back of the engine is now sitting safely on 2 50t bottle jacks and supported also by railway sleepers under the foundation ring.


Last night I started fitting the winch drum.  Reading the instructions the clevis pins should go through the various holes for the mechanism to be fitted, however the holes are threaded and the pins (obviously) aren't.  Seems odd as I've not had this sort of problem before and I can't see anything on the forum on this, did anyone else have this problem?  I should have taken a photo.

Many thanks

Rob

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Mark the spark on Thu 07 Jul 2016, 7:38 am

Hi Rob
I had this problem and I used stainless steel bolts with locktite instead
Mark



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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  Robfishman on Thu 07 Jul 2016, 12:06 pm

Thanks Mark I didn't think of that. It's probably a better solution like that anyway.

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

Post  lynnr on Thu 07 Jul 2016, 1:14 pm

The winch drums were originally meant to be threaded. But batch one drums had a lot of cast hardness in them and Steve did not want to split them threading. Unfortunately some kits had the Clevis pins and subsequent batch drums with threaded holes.

Best buy some bolts or if you have the tools thread the Clevis pins as I did on Roadloco engine.

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Re: Rob & Tash Showmans

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