Kit 18 Steering gear

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Kit 18 Steering gear

Post  Rickster on Fri 01 Jul 2011, 1:17 pm

Has anyone had an issue with this kit ?

What am I doing wrong - I don't seem to be able to prevent the steering worm from locking itself up against the bottom steering shaft when I turn the steering wheel - it seems to wind itstelf up the threaded steering shaft no matter how tight I do the lock nut up which then jams the whole steering solid.
I tried putting a washer between the worm and bottom shaft bearing to no effect.
Any help is much appreciated.

cheers

Rick

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Steering kit

Post  Tony King on Fri 01 Jul 2011, 11:58 pm

Hi Rick,
I also have been having problems, same as you, the steering wheel was going very stiff at two positions in each revoltion of the steering wheel.
I observed the problem was when the new part of the worm gear started to engage with the teeth on the chain shaft gear.
I very carefully reshaped the point of contact on the worm & that helped, I then also, again very carefully, removed some metal from all the gear teeth edges.
The steering now works but is not as free as it is on my Agricultural engine, so I'll take it apart again & do some more "fettling"!! The trouble is, the way these gears mesh is very complicated & shape of the teeth is key to "efficient" operation, so although I'm taking the chance to sort it out, I think that STW best be consulted before you attempt what I'm doing!!
I would imagine there is an issue with either the machining of the gears or the centre distance between the shafts.
Hope this helps
Tony

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Stiff steering

Post  lynnr on Wed 27 Jul 2011, 11:55 am

Hi All

I have put the steering together. I put a washer between the worm cog and the casting. Then I put a bit of mahogany between the teeth of the gears and tightened the nut up to the cog with a bit of slack above. No problem with the steering binding up Smile Just remember to put the chains on as per my picture otherwise the steering will be reversed on the wheel. Good fun.




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lol

Post  lynnr on Thu 28 Jul 2011, 5:19 am

Hi All

Guess what I did last night.



Put the chains on the wrong way rofl

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Re: Kit 18 Steering gear

Post  highpressure on Wed 03 Aug 2011, 2:03 pm

Those who have fitted the steering did anyone have issues with the brackets on the belly tank??? Does the main shaft turn freely before chains are fitted?? Mine is quite tight and if I tighten up the bearing housings to the belly tank it binds up completely so I am trying to shim them to stop this happening.

Kev.

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Steering kit

Post  Tony King on Wed 03 Aug 2011, 2:35 pm

I found that the steering brackets off the tank "spread out a bit" ie. not quite parallel. I tried "squeezing together" with sash cramps to bend them, but they were too substancial for that, so just shimmed two holes nearest tank with a 6mm washer (between bracket & bearing disc) & everything works!!
Hope this helps,
Regards
Tony

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Re: Kit 18 Steering gear

Post  highpressure on Sat 06 Aug 2011, 10:10 am

I may have misplaced a sheet of the instructions.... what is the method for keeping the worm attached to the botton of the steering rod?? Theres no key way, grub screw or lock nut so cant figure this one out.

Cheers Kev.

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Steering

Post  lynnr on Sat 06 Aug 2011, 1:53 pm

Hi Kev

If you use the method I described earlier in the thread you should not have much problem. Clean the threads of the cog, shaft and nut then use heldite or another high strenght locking compound with a bit of hardwood to lock the cog while thightening. A washer above the cog also aids things

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Anyone else feeling tight???

Post  highpressure on Mon 08 Aug 2011, 10:53 am

Got the week off so doing some catch up. Put the steering on today, no issues with the assembly or the worm but because the brackets on the belly tank are splayed slightly it throws stuff out by just a fraction and causes the shaft to be very stiff to turn. Can use the steering as steering but need two hands to turn it. Perhaps it will free up but any pointers from anyone else as to wether I should free up the shaft more to help the situation would be good. Had to shim out the tops of the bearing assemblies with a makeshift washer arrangement on the tank just in case anyone needs to know this.

Lynn... you seem to be as ahead as anyone else... did you straighten out the tank brackets or loosen up the bronze bushes or is your steering also tight at this stage??

Nick... turning angle doesnt look great but the lock chains stop the wheels hitting the tank. Sharp turns are gonna be fun though much less than the agricultural can manage. Have a picture if you want to see it.

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Re: Kit 18 Steering gear

Post  sonick45 on Mon 08 Aug 2011, 12:10 pm

Nick... turning angle doesnt look great but the lock chains stop the wheels hitting the tank. Sharp turns are gonna be fun though much less than the agricultural can manage. Have a picture if you want to see it.[/quote]

photos please...

As long as the turning circle isn't embarrassing i'm happy.
If it's a turning circle that is going to havoc road runs and general driving about then I would suggest STW look into it and rectify in a later series of replacement kits.
There has to be a happy medium between our engines working and future kits having a decent turning circle otherwise folks wont want to buy it.

i've got other engine builders I have come into contact with at shows etc that have shown interest but wont commit until the first batch are finished. due to these kind of technical problems.

If they realise this is an issue when driving I can't see them wanting one.




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Re: Kit 18 Steering gear

Post  highpressure on Mon 08 Aug 2011, 12:41 pm

This is with wheel at full lock, havent tried it outside as it needs to be pushed etc and not safe singlehanded. If you want any more pics from other angles can be arranged during the week or I might be able to find some fool to push me in the road to measure the circle versus the previous engine.





Once driving if its an issue I would have to look into it seriously. I dont mind losing 50mm off the tank or even smaller diameter wheels. Again dont forget the extra few mil on the showmans probably makes a big difference.

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Re: Kit 18 Steering gear

Post  sonick45 on Mon 08 Aug 2011, 1:34 pm

The angle doesn't look to bad but as you said without testing it proper outside it's hard to tell.

I would settle for a slightly thinner tank to get the maximum turning circle. The extra turning angle over slightly less water is preferable.

I will wait to see once someone has got their engine out and seen how it is out on the street.





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Re: Kit 18 Steering gear

Post  lynnr on Tue 09 Aug 2011, 12:09 am

Lynn... you seem to be as ahead as anyone else... did you straighten out the tank brackets or loosen up the bronze bushes or is your steering also tight at this stage??

Nick... turning angle doesnt look great but the lock chains stop the wheels hitting the tank. Sharp turns are gonna be fun though much less than the agricultural can manage. Have a picture if you want to see it.

I did not straighten the brackets but put a washer between the end plate that holds the cog on the shaft and the end of the shaft, with a notch cut for the keyway, to allow a slightly longer length of steering bar. This cured the problem. Nice and free without any pinch angles and the bar also does not have any float as the outside thrust surfaces are in contact with the bushes. 3mm if memory circuits are correct and no parity error.

On the turning circles you do need to remember these are road locos and unlike farm tractors were not designed to turn with the rear inside the circle wheel almost if not stationary.


Last edited by lynnr on Tue 09 Aug 2011, 12:19 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : added a few bits or a couple of bytes.)

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Re: Kit 18 Steering gear

Post  Tim Watson on Tue 09 Aug 2011, 4:11 am

highpressure wrote:This is with wheel at full lock, havent tried it outside as it needs to be pushed etc and not safe singlehanded. If you want any more pics from other angles can be arranged during the week or I might be able to find some fool to push me in the road to measure the circle versus the previous engine.

Once driving if its an issue I would have to look into it seriously. I dont mind losing 50mm off the tank or even smaller diameter wheels. Again dont forget the extra few mil on the showmans probably makes a big difference.

I agree with Lynn, RLs were designed for a different type of working than agricultural engines and they are much bigger. The turning circle doesn't look that bad and I have always been a bit wary of putting my TE into full lock as it's stability becomes questionable at that position. Don' t forget, we aren't making London taxis!

Tim

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Re: Kit 18 Steering gear

Post  Steam Traction World on Tue 09 Aug 2011, 5:09 am

I really do not believe that there is an issue with the amount of available steering lock on the Road Loco. The photos that Kevin has posted confirm this, at least to me! Comparing a Road Loco to an Agricultural Engine and expecting the same turning circle is like comparing a Tank Engine to the Flying Scotsman. To me the most important thing is the overall appearance and proportions of the engine. I am going to have the Road Loco version and I like to have things right.

The Rubbing Plates on the Boiler Cladding are not there to restrict anything to do with the steering. That’s what the Lock Chains will do. The Steering Lock Chains should be used to limit the amount of lock to prevent the Front Wheels fouling the Belly Tank including making a small allowance for the ‘yaw’ of the Axle on uneven ground. When on full lock the ‘yaw’ will be mostly an up and down movement and will have little impact on the proximity of the Wheel to the Belly Tank. There is however still the possibility that the up and down motion could hit the Boiler Cladding, hence the Rubbing Plates.

Let me be clear, we have no intension of making a thinner Belly Tank, smaller Front Wheels or even a Boiler extension ring.

I hope this alleviates your concerns.

Regards

Steve

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Re: Kit 18 Steering gear

Post  highpressure on Tue 09 Aug 2011, 10:50 am

What seems to be overlooked here is that we are going to be using the finished engines in exactly the same way as we do now, namely going to rallys and meetings that are held on uneven grass covered fields sometimes with huge drainage ditches cut into them. They may well be different animals in full size constructed for different purposes but in this form they will be used in the same manner and one that I am already familar with having attended and driven on a large number of surfaces.

My experience with my three inch engine means that when I talk to anyone at a do now I tell them if they are going to buy an engine they should certainly consider 4" as the minimum. I can imagine that doing the Littlehampton Bonfire night run on proper tarmac open roads will present no problems at all but that is only one do out of a season.

Steve, I dont want to have offended you, it is not a criticism of the design, the company or the work that has gone into this model so far. I wish I had had this conversation in private, but I was expressing my concerns having had both types of engine and experiencing a number of events. People often ask if I am going to do Dorset and personally I love looking but couldnt think of anything I would like less than to spend almost an entire week steaming the damn thing morning till night, my personal opinion and not nessecarily that of the masses.

I think I'll shut up now and consider posts carefully in the future.

Sorry Kev


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Re: Kit 18 Steering gear

Post  Steam Traction World on Tue 09 Aug 2011, 11:25 am

Hi Kevin

It should be me that says sorry. It was not my intention to limit comment on the forum. My major concern was that I could see this topic gathering momentum again. After the last series of postings on this topic I was inundated with emails and calls, many offering solutions and some people even wanting to swop their boilers over for Showmans ones. I just didn’t want it to get out of hand.

So please carry on using the forum in the same way.

Regards

Steve

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Re: Kit 18 Steering gear

Post  sonick45 on Tue 09 Aug 2011, 12:52 pm

I'm happy...

engine is looking amazing and i have no doubts now.

I was concerned before only due to comments made on here from those that had the rolling chassis standing in fornt of them.

having now seen the photos i'm happy it will operate perfectly.

Nick


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Steering

Post  Steve Traill on Tue 09 Aug 2011, 1:12 pm

What about if we got a steering rack from a Triumph Herald .............blah blah blah .........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................blah blah blah ................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ We could get it to turn on a sixpence !!!!!

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Re: Kit 18 Steering gear

Post  highpressure on Tue 09 Aug 2011, 1:59 pm

Look.... I've posted an apology and decided to keep my opinions to myself in future. Clearly actually using these things is an unusual idea

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Turning Circle

Post  lynnr on Wed 10 Aug 2011, 12:38 am

Just done a quick calculation. Turning circle of the showman/road loco with a 30 deg steering lock is about 17ft.

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Re: Kit 18 Steering gear

Post  Brian M on Sat 22 Oct 2011, 2:32 pm

Rickster wrote:Has anyone had an issue with this kit ?

What am I doing wrong - I don't seem to be able to prevent the steering worm from locking itself up against the bottom steering shaft when I turn the steering wheel - it seems to wind itstelf up the threaded steering shaft no matter how tight I do the lock nut up which then jams the whole steering solid.
I tried putting a washer between the worm and bottom shaft bearing to no effect.
Any help is much appreciated.

cheers

Rick

Hello All,

I have been struggling with the same issue (trying to resolve it all day). I can now take off the steering worm and gear faster than a formula one tyre change Smile .

Rick, how did you solve the travelling worm issue (I am hoping not to start take bits of the teeth of the gear)?

Any help (or pictures) from anyone greatly appreciated.

All the best,

Brian M

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Re: Kit 18 Steering gear

Post  lynnr on Sat 22 Oct 2011, 11:39 pm

Hi Brian

My solution was quite simple. I smoothed and squared the 2 ends of the worm gear. Then to stop the binding at the top against the casting that holds the steering shaft I placed a washer between the casting and the top of the worm drive. To get the gear on so it does not loosen. Wind the worm gear on until about 2mm space at the top between the washer and the casting. Using a socket extension between the cog and the lead of the worm screw at the top, This is to lock the steering drive up. This allows you to wind on the nut at the bottom and torque it up. I have not used any thread lock yet in case I need to remove the steering for some reason before build finish. It has been out at events without problem.

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Re: Kit 18 Steering gear

Post  craig@STW on Sun 23 Oct 2011, 1:26 am

@ Brian M, i would advise you to have a chat with Steve on this. i know we looked into it and can't actually remember the solution.

i did make a special jig so we could test the worms and cogs were working correctly as a pair, but then handed it over to someone else to test them all out. not sure what was decided in the end Cool

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Picture of my solution

Post  lynnr on Sun 23 Oct 2011, 7:34 am

Hi Brian



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Re: Kit 18 Steering gear

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