Kit 10 - back axle

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Kit 10 - back axle

Post  Rickster on Fri 28 Jan 2011, 1:59 pm

Hi All,
Has anyone tried to fit the back axle in the tube yet? If so does it fit?

I can't get the axle to go through - it locks solid and looks as if the tube has been centre bored from either end and the axle just won't go through both bearings. The bearings fit on the axle individually no problem - lovely fit, but as soon as I get 1/4 of axle through the tube and into the other bearing, it just locks solid.

Any help or comments would be most welcome.

cheers

Rick

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Back axle

Post  Steve Traill on Fri 28 Jan 2011, 2:35 pm

I gather that individually the bushes fitted the axle? but now they are locktited into the axle tube the axle shaft wont go through. The problem is that the two bushes aren't lined up. I think in the instructions it mentions this in that when fitting it's a good idea to slide the axle in before the locktite has gone off. The answer is to either use the dremmel to open up one of the bushes or take the bush out and realign it.

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Back Axle

Post  Rickster on Sat 29 Jan 2011, 12:27 am

Hi Steve,
yes the bearings where fine when i tried putting the axle through the tube from either end as if individual bearings. The bearings were already in the axle tube but one was knocked out when I tried test fit the axle through the tube.

I noticed the axle is out of alignment when it comes through the other side by quite some way i.e. over 1mm and I think this is what is jamming the axle.

IS this a normal amount to have to take off the bearing? This would mean the bearing is no longer in contact with the axle all the way round it's circumeference and make the thing oval and wear quickly - least that's the way my peanut is working.


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Re: Kit 10 - back axle

Post  craig@STW on Sat 29 Jan 2011, 3:41 am

no, i would suggest that this is not normal. yes the bearing bores were done from either end, there was no other way we could do it but we did have a special jig and took great care in loading the tubes carefully.

they will be a tight fit but 1mm out seems too much. all the ones we have tried fitted fine.

maybe you need a replacement

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Back Axle

Post  Rickster on Sat 29 Jan 2011, 4:09 am

Hi Craig,
Thanks for that. I have taken a few photos so you can see the problem. I did notice when I put the axle in the other way round I couldn't actually get the other end into the bearing face as it jammed in the axle tube itself.

Changed it round and I could get it in about 1/4'' before it jams up.

Looking again it appears the bearing housings are a bit out - the bearings fit in the housings fine, on the axle fine, but when the axle pushes the other bearing out I can see the bearing is at an angle against the axle, if this makes sense and seems to be quite a bit out.

Should I send it back or wait to speak to Steve on Monday ?

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Re: Kit 10 - back axle

Post  greystones on Sat 29 Jan 2011, 4:39 am

Hi Rick

Just put mine together. It needed a bit of fitting but all was OK. At the moment I am stuggeling with the oil tubes for the tanks. Looks as if they will have to be trimmed by half a mm as there is no way will they go in. They wont even go through the holes in the oil tanks. Tubes 6.4mm hole 6.00mm Mike

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Re: Kit 10 - back axle

Post  craig@STW on Sat 29 Jan 2011, 4:56 am

Rickster wrote:

Should I send it back or wait to speak to Steve on Monday ?

i would speak to Steve first Cool

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Re: Kit 10 - back axle

Post  highpressure on Sat 29 Jan 2011, 6:50 am

Having just had a quick look at mine neither end of the axle will slide into either of the bearings. I wont go as far as mearuring beacause I doubt I can measure accurately enough, plus its so damn cold outside at the mo and I am not feeling too good so might not be thinking straight either. A quick look doesnt show up any burrs that may be catching but it doesnt just slide in and certainly wont rotate.

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Re: Kit 10 - back axle

Post  craig@STW on Sat 29 Jan 2011, 9:39 am

unfortunately the fitting of the Axel is going to be a pig of a job due to the sheer size and weight of it and the tightness of fit. you have to get it perfectly in line before it will go in.

we found it a lot easier to fit if you put the Axel into a bare tube and then slide a bush down from each end. unfortunately the bushes had to be fitted first so we could drill the oil holes Cool

i would suggest polishing the Axel to remove any surface rust that has built up and maybe putting a small chamfer on the edge of the bushes. with some polishing and lubricating they should go in.

however, if they don't line up end to end then there "could" be a problem worth looking at.

if you get them in and they are a tight fit, don't worry. once you get the wheels on they will turn and bed in nicely Cool

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Axle tube

Post  Rickster on Sat 29 Jan 2011, 10:50 am

Hi Craig,

Definately a problem with lining up the bearings when in the axle tube. One end goes in fine, both bearings have a good fit but there is no way I can get the second bearing more past the oil hole before the lot locks up sold and the beaing is out of square in it's housing by 1mm up the oil hole point. Beyond that it locks solid. I've sent you a mail with pictures, but for some reason, I can't attach them on the forum.

It really is so far out, it needs a replacement. I'll speak to Steve on Monday.

Cheers

Rick


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Re: Kit 10 - back axle

Post  craig@STW on Sat 29 Jan 2011, 11:21 am

yes Rick, sounds like yours requires more than a little "tweaking"

not had any pics come through though. i've just altered my settings so you should be able to e-mail me now

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Axle and Axle tube

Post  Rickster on Sat 29 Jan 2011, 11:39 am



Hi Craig - picture attached

cheers

Rick

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Axle tube

Post  Rickster on Sat 29 Jan 2011, 11:41 am

Hi Craig,
I should have the picture is with the bearing fully home in the other end of the tube, so you can see it is quite a bit out !

Rick

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Re: Kit 10 - back axle

Post  craig@STW on Sat 29 Jan 2011, 11:55 am

yeah, that looks out Neutral

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AXLE

Post  BURRELL 4 on Sun 30 Jan 2011, 4:54 am

Hi Craig
My axle is fine now it did take a long time to get it right the way a got round it was to get the bush's to slide on the axle first then fit one bush in the tube and then try the axle in than bush if it fit ok slid the other bush over the axle first then tap it in the tube I use a peace of wood turn the axel as you are taping bush in also make sure the oil way's are in line ......two hours later it all fits

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Re: Kit 10 - back axle

Post  highpressure on Sun 30 Jan 2011, 12:14 pm

Spent 1/2 hour today trying to fit the axle into the tube but just couldnt get it to fit, in the end out of frustration I knocked out one of the bushes to see if I could get it on as it will be a very tight fit to be a close run and it wouldnt go on the axle more than 2mm. Then spent the best part of an hour with wet and dry and oil trying to hone out the bush , eventually managing to get it 3/4 of the way on to the axle but then it just becomes impossible to go any further. Would a honing tool be the best way to open it a few thou to get it to fit? I will also need to knock the other one out to widen it too and thats before I try to see if it will run true though both bushes insitu>

Craig should I continue down this course to which I have no problem or should I wait till I come up in few weeks and bring it with me to see what you guys think?

Otherwise the castings for the bearings look really good and very substantial, all now cleaned and being painted.

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Re: Kit 10 - back axle

Post  craig@STW on Sun 30 Jan 2011, 1:10 pm

can you get a measurement of the Axel ???

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Re: Kit 10 - back axle

Post  highpressure on Mon 31 Jan 2011, 12:36 am

Probably good news in that with my Lidl special electronic calipers!!! Very Happy it measures a pretty accurate 50mm without variation!! The bush I have attacked already however seems to be 49.95 or therabouts allowing for the fact that it is an inside measurement which isnt as easy to get exact and the one still in the axle tube is about 49.87 to 49.90. Shocked That would explain it being tight then!!

I dont have an issue with carrying on with the wet and dry but I wondered if there might be a quicker method to just open it up a little using a tool of some sorts.

Cheers Kev.

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Re: Kit 10 - back axle

Post  greystones on Mon 31 Jan 2011, 2:00 am

Hi Kev

I used 40mm flap wheel to open my bushes up. Did it bit at a time and removed all the high spots.

I have used this methods on the Foden and 4 inch agri engine and its proved ok in the past. Even when bush and shaft are the same size, when the bush is pushed in it always tightens it up and you might have to make adjustments.

Mike

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kit 10 bushes challenge!!

Post  Tony King on Mon 31 Jan 2011, 2:54 am

I have found that it is best to remove the bushes from the axle casing & ensure they are a nice sliding fit on the shaft first. I found that one of my bushes only slid onto the shaft half way before locking up!! Fortunately I have a lathe, so a quick spin with some abrasive paper had it sliding smoothly on the shaft. The next thing is to carefuly fit one bush in the axle casing, if its tight then put in in the lathe & rub a bit off the outside, keeping things concentric is the priority here!! I found that only the smallest amount needed to be removed but makes all the differance when assembling these very heavey bits of metal. Carefuly slide in your shaft, then slide the other bush onto the shaft at the other end, until it gently goes into the axle casting. If it don't, then adjust it's outside diameter acordingly. It took me a while to get it perfect, then, one at a time I locktited them in place............... perfect smooth & not trace of sloppyness.
I have just applied the same fitting technech to the rear wheel bushes, which are alot harder to get right, probably due to the shear weight of the wheel & shaft!!! However, now it's done it is a beautiful fit, as is the rest of the kit which is starting to really look like something now!!
This sub assemblies are getting bloody heavy to move about so take care!!! I'm booked in for a hernia operation as I've overdone it!! Seriously!!!
RegardsTony

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Re: Kit 10 - back axle

Post  craig@STW on Mon 31 Jan 2011, 3:24 am

yeah, i would say a flap wheel in a drill is the best thing for the average builder.

good thing is, once done they will be a nice tight fit. better than being sloppy Cool

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Re: Kit 10 - back axle

Post  craig@STW on Mon 31 Jan 2011, 7:46 am

one thing to add... part number BS41005 (Flywheel Brake Pivot) has been sent out with the wrong fasteners. these should have been M8 and not M6 as stated on the packing list.

we are already sorting out the replacements and sending them out. Cool

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Re: Kit 10 - back axle

Post  highpressure on Mon 31 Jan 2011, 8:48 am

Hi Tony,

Right access to a lathe is not a problem here as the local engineering club can provide that. The inside I can understand, bush in the chuck and just hold the wet and dry inside until done, but what about the outside do you fit it on a mandrel of some sort? This I take it is so that when you slide the bush down the shaft it goes in easily to the the casting?? Then what sort of loctite, a bearing retainer?

Cheers Kev.

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Re: Kit 10 - back axle

Post  Tim Watson on Mon 31 Jan 2011, 1:50 pm

Not wishing to gloat, but I will anyway: the bushes required five minutes each end with a flap wheel and the axle slid through smoothly.

Tim

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kit 10 bushes challenge!!

Post  Tony King on Mon 31 Jan 2011, 2:18 pm

Hi Kev,
I simply held bronze bush in three jaw chuck, very gently so as not to "squash" the bearing but just tight enough to stop it falling out when you use emery tape. I just "cleaned up" the bit in front of the chuck jaws which would be the face going into the axle casing. This allows the bearing to:- a) enter the casing easily b) to align itself on the shaft & c) to maintain full concentricty on the "untouched" part of the bearing wot was in the jaws of the chuck. Use nice new emery tape & the metal comes off very easily. Well, it worked for me!!
Make sure you clean up the bearing on the inside surface before you assemble, else it'll keep "wearing in" when the engine's running!!
If you find the whole of the outside of the bearing needs to be reduced, simply reverse in the chuck, the ammont you'll be removing is so small that concentricty should not be an issue!!
Lastly, ensure that you keep things inline & streight , if even the slightest bit off it'll all jam up, use plenty lubricant!!
Hope this helps............... good luck!
Tony

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Re: Kit 10 - back axle

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