Testing on Air- success

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Testing on Air- success

Post  forge on Sat 25 Jul 2009, 3:44 am

Hi, Dean, Steve, and all fellow Burrell builders,

I have just had a successful air test, at the first attempt. With no load apart from the water pump (less packing) i can get the engine to turnover at approx 15psi. Dad is most impressed as I think he thought it would never work!

. Feeling very happy with myself
cheers

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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  hughb on Mon 27 Jul 2009, 11:48 am

Well done good to here Very Happy Very Happy Razz Razz Shocked

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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  forge on Mon 27 Jul 2009, 12:56 pm

Thanks Hugh,

Since posting i have done a few tests. With the packing added to the waterpump ram i needed an extra 5 psi for the engine to turnover. I still have to set and file the reverser notches, has anyone else sorted these out as i would be interested to see a photo. I think i may need an another expansion link brass nut as mine is a bit too loose. I am also thinking i may have to file a bigger notch in the regulator valve for smooth starting. Would it be worth testing with 100psi on the gauge at this stage?

I had a small air leak on the boiler drain valve. Was thinking i may change this for a 90 deg fitting and a globe valve as it would be easier to fill the boiler with water when i come to run on steam. What otherways are there to fill the boiler?

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Running on air

Post  Big Al on Mon 27 Jul 2009, 2:47 pm

Forge

Mine runs on air at about 20psi, bearing in mind its' all tight I am not concerned. I filed the notches in my reverser but only managed 4, 1 x reverse, 1 x neutral and 2 for forward. wasn't much space between neutral and full forward to get many notches in.

I managed to get pressure up steadily but because it's all new it does kick in quite suddenly but when it's running it is quite well controllable with the reg lever. I saw a model of a 1 1/2 allchin at the weekend which has run for 4 seasons, It wasn't steamed up and you could turn it over with the pressure supplied by a small fart, it was superb, when the flywheel was turned it was so smooth you wouldn't know anything was connected to it. Hope our Burrells turn over the same

As regards filling, I would think the reason for filling it from the bottom is to prevent air locks and to aid draining, the instructions do say to chamfer the plug to get it to seat, I had to chamfer it a few times to get it tight. Once its filled from cold the injector or pump should do the rest.

I spoke to a couple of old boys who drive 2" engines and they say they are a bugger to keep going, you are always filling up the boiler, filling up the water tank, stoking the fire, watching the guages and generally buggering about, slightly too much coal and the safety valves blow, not enough, and because of restricted volume of steam stored in the boiler, steam pressure drops off dramatically when she moves, so you need more heat quickly so add more coal them open blower to draw fire up chimney and no pressure left to run the bloody thing!

It ssounds like acareful balancing act that takes years to get right

No time to sit back and enjoy the ride, It will only tick over for a few minutes before it wants attention.



Alan

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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  BUNGLE on Mon 27 Jul 2009, 3:09 pm

FORGE,
WE HAD TROUBLE WITH THE BLOWDOWN VALVE NOT SEATING TOO.

BUNGLE

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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  hughb on Wed 29 Jul 2009, 1:15 pm

Forge
HI I as of yet not got to this point .I am at .2 kits behinde you guys .But I am getting on with my roof and things Sad .I hope to spend some time at the w/e Smile .I hope
Good luck with the build Laughing Cool

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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  TonyT on Wed 29 Jul 2009, 4:43 pm

Not so big Al

I've had similar chats with owners of 2" engines,yes it's a fine balacing act to keep them going.

But thats where the fun starts isn't it.Keep on smiling mate,can't be as hard as building these tiny things.
I had a good look at Tim Mason's engine at the Boconnoc Rally last weekend,and left thinking perhaps 4" is the way foward due to ease of build and running.

Anyhow my mind is on other things,off to see Metallica this weekend with my boys Very Happy Weather forecast is crap,but let the good times roll Exclamation I'll let the kids tell you all about as I'll probably won't remember any of it! Apprently I saw ZZ Top,Whitesnake,and Def Leppard at Download this year but I don't remember drunken drunken drunken

cheer's Tony Very Happy

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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  forge on Thu 30 Jul 2009, 8:18 am

Here is my attempt at taking a video!


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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  BUNGLE on Mon 03 Aug 2009, 3:19 pm

WE RUN ON AIR TONITE FOR THE FIRST TIME, QUITE PLEASED WITH EVERYTHING, COUPLE OF AIR LEAKS, EASY TO FIX, BUT OUR 'SECOND' BOILER BLOW DOWN VALVE LEAKS TOO, UNDER PRESSURE, MAY GIVE UP WITH THE STW ONES, AND BUY ONE FROM A SUPPLIER. OTHER THAN THAT DOWN FETTLING.

BUNGLE

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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  northburrell on Wed 05 Aug 2009, 10:26 am

i'm glad to see it running on air but one thing i would look at is that clunking sound it makes it's not right.. A nw engine should not make that noise.. I notice the other video thats on you tube of the lined out red 2" one also makes the same noise but worse...that needs looking at...It took me many long hours to get mine funning spot on and i'm glad I took the time now...sorry but just thought I'd say... it should be tight but not clunk...

Re the blow down valve. if you hold the valve body in the vice lightly and screw it down hard and i mean hard it will seat. unscrew it and do it again for a few times... mines fine now. i did find i had to use some lock and seal on the thread into the boiler as un screwing the valve made the body inscrew in the boiler...

I havent done much to mine these past few weeks too much on ATM.. I'll try and get some painting done tonight as it's nice weather..

In reply to these models being hard to steam and run.. there not hard at all I run my 31/2inch Juliet loco every weekend pretty much and it's tiny compared to the Burrell. one lap of the track bit of coal on the fire axle pump on while running round then off again, I can do 3 laps of our 1/4 mile track before needing to even think about refilling the tanks..
The boiler on our 2inch is the same size of some 7 1/4 inch loco's so you'll be suprised how easy it is to steam and have fun with.. you do have to piss about allot but that's just steam engines...

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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  forge on Wed 05 Aug 2009, 10:50 am

hi all, continuing with my air tests, have now got the water pump to pump water, but it still continues to pump a bit of water with the bypass valve open, is this correct or should the bypass valve stop any water being pumped into boiler?
The water pressure is very good when the bypass is shut as i can not stop it with a finger over the outlet, produces a nice spray straight across the shed! I am thinking it would be worth fitting a water gauge to the tender.
i still have a slight air leak through the clack valves, i suspect its not a problem but will check again once all the pipes are on. my thinking is the water pump pressure and the steam injector will stop any pressure drop.
Jon,

ps looking forward to receiving some new bits? when is the next kit due?

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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  northburrell on Thu 06 Aug 2009, 7:38 am

the bypass should stop the water from being pumped to the boiler, if there is a little dribble coming through then you'll need to work out if it's got enough pressure to get past the boiler pressure thats going to be on the other side of the clack valve! simple really...

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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  forge on Thu 06 Aug 2009, 12:23 pm

HI, NORTHBURRELL, I know what is causing the small clunk with my engine.
its 1. a loose forward eccentric strap.
2. the expantion link brass nut is too loose aswell. will be needing another...
and 3. the ball bearings in the waterpump! this is prob a feature!

i need to tighten the forward and reverse eccentric straps a little and all will be fine! will sort them out when i remove the valve gear for painting he cladding


have now sorted the eccentric straps and adjusted the cross-head and con-rod. i broke the wrist pin (shared off under the nut). will fit a lock washer next time!
engine turns over very well now. can i ask which grade of oil i should use in the bearings and on the cross-head guides?
also, which kit is due next? is there 3 kits remaining?
jon

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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  northburrell on Wed 12 Aug 2009, 7:24 am

Hi Forge,

I'm glad you have sorted out the clunking noise, A new engine shouldnt sound like this.



Im not sure who's this is but this needs looking at as having load on the engine will make it worse not better.. Again i'm sorry for maybe picking holes in peoples engines but im sure that after spending thousands of pounds on the model that you want it to not fall apart after a years worth of running if not sooner..

Oil wise as discussed in another post on here i wouldn't worry about what oil you use just some car engine oil will do the job just fine.. I would get some oil in the cylinder also. dont use steam oil for air testing as steam oil needs steam for it to be broken down and spread around the inside the cylinder..

I'm wanting the diff and gears so i can put on the reverser. after that it's just the safty valves, side wooden ledge and tool kit. govener, lubricator, rod for cylinder drains. brake gear, gear changer, injector and water valve, and i think that about it.. some coal, water and a lighter... Smile

Jo

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Testiring on a

Post  Big Al on Wed 12 Aug 2009, 10:36 am

Jo

T'was mine. Since that video I have tightened up the flywheel via the grubscrew hole (can't find the grubscrew anywhere!

Now 'tis lovely and quiet Laughing




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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  BUNGLE on Wed 12 Aug 2009, 2:18 pm

HI MEDIUM SIZED AL !

NICE VID, WELL DONE. CAN I ASK IF YOUR BLOW DOWN VALVE IS OK, COULDN'T HEAR IT LEAKING IN THE VID?

BUNGLE

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testing on air

Post  Big Al on Sat 15 Aug 2009, 5:03 am

BUNGLE

Blowdown valve was sealed till I played around with it now it leaks. sealed it using a brass washer and plumbers mate to hold and seal the washer in and screwed the blowdown screw in tight to 'dish' the washer and get a good seal. Seems ok at the moment !!

On one of the videos that showed the reversing lever moving, I filed a chamfer on my right hand link bracket so it didn't foul the cleading and now mine rocks! Anyone else got the same happening?

I don't know how much effect it will have other that wear sooner.

Bout time we had a kit as well, didn't get one at all last month and half this ones gone so now unlikely to be able to display this season Sad


Alan (1 stone lighter Laughing )

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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  hughb on Sat 15 Aug 2009, 1:06 pm

Hi Alan
Just seen your vid .Top marks well done Laughing Cool Smile cyclops

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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  BUNGLE on Sat 15 Aug 2009, 1:42 pm

HI TINY AL (LOL),
THE BLOW DOWN WE ARE KINDA LOSING FAITH IN SO PROB GET ONE FROM REEVES, I CAN'T BE DOING WITH UNRELIABLE BITS.

WE CHAMFERED OUR LINK (NEAREST CLADDING) ON FIRST ASSEMBLY, OUR REVERSER LEVER ROCKS IN REVERSE, BUT PRETTY OK IN FORWARD.

THE KIT THING IS GUESS BOTH DEAN AND STEVE OFF PLAYING STEAM CARS. PERSONALLY THOUGHT THAT A STRANGE THING TO DO FOR A 'NEW' COMPANY WITH A MOVE NEARLY ON TOP OF THEM. THEY NEEDED TO BE AHEAD OF THEMSELVES, NOT BEHIND. JUST MY OPINON.

FAT BUNGLE !! lol!

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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  BUNGLE on Fri 21 Aug 2009, 3:47 pm

HI CHAPS (AND LADIES) FURTHER TO THE ABOVE ABOUT THE PROBS WE HAVE HAD WITH THE BLOWDOWN, GOT ONE TODAY FROM REEVES, IT REAL NICE, AND SEALS !! JOB DONE.

BUNGLE

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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  Big Al on Sun 08 Nov 2009, 9:07 am

Hi All

Filled tank with water and ran on air to test water pump

First thing was to use the blowdown valve to fill the boiler. Now I have used to valve a few times it wont seat without a lot of pressure so I am going the 'Bungle' way and investing in a Reeves jobby

When I ran with 100psi and turned pump on I found that it was far too much pressure in the boiler to be overcome by the pump, that and the pipe to the globe valve leaked as the silver soldered joint was'nt too good so had to re solder the joint. I found that the pump was really straining and flexing to over come the pressures. Found a few other leaks as well !

With the boiler running at 40 - 45 psi the pump was able to overcome the boiler pressure and topped it up with water at a relatively low tickover.

Anyone else carried out any such tests yet? unless I hear otherwise I assume my pump is OK at 45psi

Al

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Re: Testing on Air- success

Post  northburrell on Fri 13 Nov 2009, 4:22 am

Hi Al,

You might find that the lift on your clack valve ball is not enough so the pump cant push it up far enough to get the water past the ball when the pressure on the other side is high.. have an experiment with the lift of the ball.. mine lifts a far way as i found on the Loco's that not enough lift can also stop the injector from picking up and working as it should..You also might find that the pump will flex the horn plate a little bit..

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