Torque settings

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Torque settings

Post  Chrs777 on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 5:51 pm

Hi, are torque settings needed for any part of the build ? I'm thinking of the cylinder block to boiler mainly.

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Re: Torque settings

Post  LiveSteam on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 7:16 pm

Not that I'm aware of, although I've not built one but just maintain one, all the bolts are done up.......enough.

Of course how much enough is can be very subjective, I suppose it comes with practice. The cylinders been off mine and when replaced I just gave each bolt a good pull with a spanner that was about 8" long. Had the odd leak as it steamed afterwards but just went round it again pulling it down a bit more. Had the odd thread that wouldnt seal so just backed it off enough to slip some ptfe under it and wound it back down. Been fine all of last season now.

You just have to take care, with decent surfaces and good gaskets I've always been surprised how little you actually need to pull stuff down, the nuts on my safety valve plate are done up with little more than a nut spinner.

Just dont go mad with a huge ratchet on things or you'll regret it very quickly, you can always tighten something down a bit more but you cant easily go back on a stripped thread.

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Re: Torque settings

Post  Chrs777 on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 8:26 pm

Some very good advice there. It'd be interesting to know if there is a torque setting though. There is a graphite string which could be used in place of ptfe, I don't know if it is better or not ?

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Re: Torque settings

Post  LiveSteam on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 8:47 pm

Just looked in my build manual and while it mentions the sequence is important on the cylinder to boiler theres no torque settings.

You could use one of the suggested ones from say this link https://www.grampianfasteners.com/files/b19fdce8-84e1-4710-b6de-513c38073111/Torque_Settings.pdf for the M8 nuts but I would be extremely cautious just winding up a torque wrench to their suggested settings and winding stuff down to it.
Feel is a far better way IMHO and the use of short arm spanners and the likes.

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Re: Torque settings

Post  Chrs777 on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 9:35 pm

Downloaded the link cheers. But feel and experience is essential to do it right, as you say the sequence will be important too.

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Re: Torque settings

Post  lynnr on Thu 23 Feb 2017, 10:18 am

No torque except "FTBNTT" or "Shear point and back 1/2 a turn"

The block I did tight with a 6" spanner. Then when she is hot I went round them again to squeeze the joint. All other fastenings, bit of locktight on ones that will not require removing again. Then during and after the first number of steaming's and road runs, run round with the spanner checking and tightening where required.

Then after 3 years of running. Some bolts that never loosened up suddenly decide to unwind themselves.

I have a full set of tools in the belly tank toolbox. Little stubby spanners fit well. All sizes used and a "make it round" adjustable. Packet of split pins also reside there. Even the drive pins fit in the box. Then on the dynamo platform behind the electrical panel, I have a magnetic tray with a few spare nuts, bolts and washers.
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Re: Torque settings

Post  Chrs777 on Thu 23 Feb 2017, 10:50 am

Thanks lynnr. I will do it as well as I can without shearing, then like you say, go over them again when hot. I'm a little way from that at the moment, but it's good to be prepared with some helpful info.

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Re: Torque settings

Post  mikero on Thu 23 Feb 2017, 11:04 am

I managed to strip a boiler stud on my Foden while air-testing for leaks so be careful while under pressure. Keep out of line as it goes like a cork out of a bottle.

Mike
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Re: Torque settings

Post  lynnr on Thu 23 Feb 2017, 11:36 am

Yes..

When hot but not at pressure. I did a blowdown then checked the nuts etc before she cools.
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Torque settings

Post  T140 on Thu 23 Feb 2017, 10:45 pm

Don't torque the studs, don't torque any of the studs because you will over stretch them or strip them.

Studs should really only be wound in finger tight then nipped up with a spanner of the correct size. Then checked again after a few days then as Lynn suggests. Likewise wind the nuts on using the same method. For the cylinder cover studs make a hex bar tool to wind the studs in.

Look on The Engine Tool Room site where a stud installing tool can found that is easily made, mine is a 30mm length of hex bar, drilled and tapped from either end with the stud dia. One end install a bolt the other wind in the stud, or mimic the dome nut and ball.

If you look at a spanner length in relation to the size they were only designed to apply only so much leverage by a normal sized person, hence an open ended spanner will start to give earlier than a ring spanner, and that in turn gives before a socket and ratchet. Obviously the exception are flipping great spanners with long handles for say drive shaft nuts. That's also why a 5mm spanner is not 150mm long!!!

I hope this makes sense?

Richard.

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Re: Torque settings

Post  Chrs777 on Fri 24 Feb 2017, 7:24 am

I'm going to have a look at the engine tool room shop thank you for your time and advice Richard.

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Engine Tool Room

Post  T140 on Fri 24 Feb 2017, 12:11 pm

It's actually Engine Room Tools, sorry I got that slightly wrong. But it's a lovely site dating from the early 1900's, it's a very large set of pdfs about running ships in America, however it does contain a huge amount of information about tools and their care, plus tips on making tools too, particularly the stud tool. If you ignore some of the American dimensions it's probably one of the best go to manuals I have seen.

https://maritime.org/doc/tools/part2.htm look at page 91. The book has been made available in three parts.

It's not a shop though, but the information is free.

Have fun

Richard.

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Re: Torque settings

Post  Chrs777 on Fri 24 Feb 2017, 1:35 pm

Ah. I wondered why I couldn't find it.
Thank you for the link.

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Re: Torque settings

Post  LiveSteam on Fri 24 Feb 2017, 9:15 pm

The Stud driver is rather nice, better than the normal double nut method


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Re: Torque settings

Post  Chrs777 on Sat 25 Feb 2017, 7:57 am

Will I need to have one of these stud driver / remover for the build ? If I do need one, where can I get one and what size ? Or do I need to make one ?

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Re: Torque settings

Post  lynnr on Sat 25 Feb 2017, 8:23 am

No special tools required anywhere on the build. I used the two nut method for putting the studs in with no problem.
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Torque settings

Post  T140 on Sat 25 Feb 2017, 8:41 am

As Lynn says you don't necessarily need specialist tools, it's not a requirement for the cylinder to boiler studs as you have the dome nut with ball. I made one because it's a handy tool to have for all the 6mm studs. Or you can use the two nuts that Lynn speaks of, they all work.

Have fun with the build.

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Re: Torque settings

Post  Chrs777 on Sat 25 Feb 2017, 9:46 am

Ok.thanks guys. Two nut method works for me. I shall certainly have fun building it, great to know this forum and others like tt can provide much help and advice.

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Re: Torque settings

Post  LiveSteam on Sat 25 Feb 2017, 9:04 pm

Sorry Chrs777, didnt mean that one was needed, it was just a comment that I rather liked the design.

Double nuts work fine and as others have said nothing special need to build or maintain the engines, one reason I have one Wink

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