Cumbrian 4" Showman

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Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  JayBee on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 8:15 pm

Having visited the GDSF on a number of occasions and greatly enjoyed all the full size and smaller engines on display I have taken the plunge and embarked on building a STW Burrell and being seduced by the line up of Showman's engines it had to be the one to go for so here goes!



My background is in engineering and I have done a little model engineering but this will be a challenge. I am planning to document my probably slow progress to adding another 4" Showman's to the line up of excellent engines already out there.



This is not the first bit to get done but having painted the smokebox it really felt that there was some progress. Paint is Barbecue satin black and I will be Nickel plating the exposed steel parts. The puzzle with the plating is that I have not found anything to indicate how to judge the thickness of the plating or how much is required to provide corrosion protection. Also, If anyone has comments on an optimum size for photos I would appreciate yoiur comments these are very much as they came from the camera.

John


Last edited by JayBee on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  lynnr on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 8:35 pm

Hi

And welcome aboard the Showman train.

First photo size. Resize to 800 pixels wide by however much tall. Normally done by linking aspect ratio when resizing. This economises on bandwidth needed and online storage space. Also makes the pictures less attractive to pinching without loosing forum view ability.

Nickel plating. Not very thick needed as long as solid coating. I normally went for 60 mins at a mild fizz 12v 1A with the frost kit.

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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  JayBee on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 9:09 pm

Hi Lynn,

Thanks for the advice I wondered if the photos needed to be a little smaller.

I am using the Frost power supply and there is no fizzing, are you using your own power supply? I have just been plating some more parts but next time I will check the current. I suspect my plating is going at a slower pace.

John

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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  lynnr on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 9:24 pm

I used a bog standard 12v car battery with the resistive wire and croc clip. Meter on amps to set 1A ~ 1.5 inch from the end of the wire.
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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  JayBee on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 9:32 pm

Do you use the same setup whether plating a little or a lot or do you keep the current the same?

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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  lynnr on Wed 17 Feb 2016, 9:58 pm

Exactly the same. Just adjusted for the one amp. Single item or a bucket full. Just shuffle about so not to cast shadows between parts and the anodes.
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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  JayBee on Sun 21 Feb 2016, 7:19 pm

Progress on the Perch bracket, modified with lamp brackets and grease pots.



And first painting of colour coat. Delighted with the gloss but I guess there will be chips and dings as the build progresses.



I've also been busy with another batch of plating. Thought I would get some of these done ready for assembly later.



Last edited by JayBee on Fri 10 Feb 2017, 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  JayBee on Wed 02 Mar 2016, 7:54 pm

Tender in primer with mod to remove inspection hatch at rear and the bunker extension external fittings.




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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  JayBee on Fri 10 Feb 2017, 8:26 pm

Opted to use POR15 to seal the tender. All went well using a full tin and swilling around, not too much leakage but it certainly found any holes that I hadn't masked off properly and also leaked a little at the joints.
After letting the sealant harden off I filled the tender with water to check everything. No leaks :-). But!
When I put a little warm air through to dry things off after the test, the POR15 peeled off in sheets.



I thought that I had done a thorough job degreasing and going over with a flap wheel. I think that my mistakes were
- Go really coarse with the sanding before coating 80 - 100 grade.
- Don't try and fill some of the larger gaps before applying the POR15. I used a liitle silicone sealant on a couple of seams. Yes I should have known silicone and paint doesn't work.

Second attempt has held and the tender not leaking. Onwards.

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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  hartshaulage on Sat 11 Feb 2017, 4:45 pm

POR 15 is actually prone to coming off in sheets, we used it in a motorcycle fuel tank did as it said on the tin few week later peeled straight off, so may not be some thing you've done

Russ
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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  JayBee on Sat 11 Feb 2017, 6:10 pm

Thanks, that's interesting, I might try something else for the belly tank then. I know some have used Isoflex but that is too thick to swill around and I am not sure how to get it into all the the corners.

John

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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  Steve Traill on Sat 11 Feb 2017, 11:22 pm

I used POR15 a couple of times but was not impressed after water was put in the tank, after one season there was rust around all the fixings and awkward bits. Isoflex if put on thick enough seems to be the best, I put three coats on and then apply more around the bolt ends until they basically disappear. It's been 10 years on the agricultural and every year it's perfect when I empty it at the end of the season & leave it dry for the winter.
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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  lynnr on Sun 12 Feb 2017, 10:44 am

I have uses Isoflex on Crystals water spaces. Once thick coat. Helps to warn the parts and pot gently before use. Good stir and stir frequently during use. Use an old or "disposable" brush, as are one use only.

Make sure the brake shaft is well sealed as I had to do a touch up as water was coming out of the brake shaft oil holes. Oops.

On the tender I left the front panel off that faces the boiler. Painted everything up to a 1/8" of the bolt holes. Painted the panel right to the curved edge. Let dry. Put the panel in and bolt up. Then from the inspection hole get the brush in to shove a puddle of isoflex around to fill the final gap around the front panel. Others do the tender floor last but I found doing the end plate worked better for the painting.

On the belly tank. Put the hornplate brackets on the belly tank side (still un-assembled) bolt up on the hornplates and tighten everything up.
Now you have correct spacing for the brackets. Paint in the manner all internal surfaces up to just short of the bolt flange areas etc. let dry.  I put everything other than the end panels together then painted the bolts and seams. Then put the end panels on and with a mirror inside and light. Painted round the edge to complete.

Leave the area around the balance pipe un-painted as the copper fitting will need removing to get the pipework to the tender fitted once everything else is on. Also means it is easier to remove the belly tank until final finish. Don't forget to finish.

When we got the modified belly tank brackets. I had to remove the balance pipe fitting and it took me over a hour to remove the isoflex from it. So it has stuck very very well.

My bowser tank build shows the routine well. It also is doing well.
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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  JayBee on Sun 12 Feb 2017, 8:58 pm

Thanks Lynn for such a detailed reply. Very helpful.

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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  JayBee on Mon 13 Feb 2017, 9:01 am

Busy with the front axle. Adjusting a couple of holes, really a visual thing for the steering mounting position.



Also having a go at the paint lining by hand. Who said that this would be easy. Wow, I might have to give up the drink. Photo has a lot of smears and finger prints.



After this attempt I decided to make up a test piece to see if my proposed lining work would look right in the finished state.



And then on to the real thing.




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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  Robfishman on Mon 13 Feb 2017, 10:52 pm

Another great Ex-Mayor paint finish by the look of it. Looks great do keep up the good work, you'll wish you went for a simpler paint scheme but stick with it as it's worth it in the end.
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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  JayBee on Tue 14 Feb 2017, 8:22 am

Hi Rob, I think that I am wondering about the complexity already. You have done a fantastic job though and set the bar very high.

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Tank sealer

Post  parador on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 6:05 pm

It seems that, reading through the many threads on this subject, that there are three options:

POR 15
Isoflex
and Apexior No 3 (which is sold by Heritage Steam Supplies).


I would be interested in hearing the pros' and cons' for the above products as I am about to order some Apexior as it seems to have no negative reports(other than price)

Martin

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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  TimV on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 8:17 pm

Hi Martin, I would definitely go with the Apexior 3 its not the cheapest but its the best product for water tanks. The trouble with Isoflex is that it is not designed to be submerged in water but only as a roofing sealer and what tends to happen when in a water tank it can start to bubble and lift off, as for POR 15 well thats just for petrol tanks and I dont think its alot of good for that job either !! anyway thats my opinion on the water tank sealer saga, but I expect someone on here will say im wrong !!
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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  JayBee on Thu 16 Feb 2017, 8:41 pm

Hi Martin,
I went for the POR15 because I could swill it around after building the tender. As you have seen adhesion can be a problem. Both the other alternatives require brushing or spraying. Perhaps the thing would be to get parts sand blasted and then almost anything will work. Apexior is clearly suitable and is OK for potable water which is probably reflected in the cost.
On another job I have used 2 pack marine paint and that seemed to work, again suitable for immersion.




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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  JayBee on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 7:51 pm

On with the front wheels. Spokes de-scaled and dressed and for the first wheel I painted the spokes with primer before final assembly.



I couldn't convince myself that this was going to make a great difference so just painted the rim for the second wheel. Plenty of paint still to go on.



The trickiest part seemed to be timing the clean up of the epoxy after assembling the hubs. Trying to tidy up too soon and the epoxy was still sticky and leaving it longer made it seem very hard to remove with blades and scraper.My garage is quite cold so I had to keep making repeated trips through an evening to judge the best time for this job.

I am using the Craftmaster paints and have tried brush painting but cannot get to grips with it so most of mine will be sprayed unless I improve.



Undercoat painting.



And yellow

I have also made slightly different caps for the grease points.


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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  parador on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 10:42 pm

Your paint finish on the yellow wheel looks really good. I also tried brushing but have now generally moved onto spraying. For me there are issues with either method so I keep swopping between the two depending on how the mood takes me.

Regards
Martin

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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  JayBee on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 7:14 pm

Thanks Martin. It's not perfect by any means close up but is better for me than brushing. It is possible to get some very good results and photos on this forum show some outstanding finishes. Probably wise to do as you mix and match technique depending on the part.

John

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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  JayBee on Sun 26 Feb 2017, 7:56 pm

Decoration of the front wheels required a deal of planing and laying out before starting to apply the paint.



Front and backs of the wheels have the same patern apart from the extra decoration on the outside of rims. Craftmaster signwriting paints, applied by masking, striping tool and freehand to get all the lines in.



Missed a couple of rivets here.



The finished scheme and the extra detail on the outside.



Finally a coat of varnish over the lining but as yet not over the whole wheel. I have yet to decide on that.

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Re: Cumbrian 4" Showman

Post  JayBee on Sun 26 Feb 2017, 8:28 pm

Some earlier photos of the tender going together. Because I had them I used skin pins to assemble the plates before fixing and as others have done sometimes I primed the parts before assembly and sometimes just left the prepared metal.  I also found it very helpful to use an old phillips screwdriver with the end ground to round point and a pick as podgers to help adjust the hole alignment. It needed care because the steel is quite soft and the hole elongate.



I am transfering the water level taps onto the L/H side so have blanked the existing ones and drilled new holes



Top plate put on last and the tow straps held with temporary screws untill I can fit the complete tender to the hornplates.



Finished tender in primer.



I have made a simple water level gauge which I will fit to the tender. The cork might be replaced with a float.


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