New build of a Burrell

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New build of a Burrell

Post  Mick1020 on Wed 12 Aug 2015, 3:37 pm

Hi to you all from Ireland,
I'll start by saying that its a good job that STW are out there as i would have never had the time or equipment to build one from scatch.So many thanks to all at STW.
Collected a full kit last year & been building on & off since then, Its now finished apart from a few bits to be done & have ran on air ok, This weekend will be the birth of another STW 4" Burrell AgI with the lighting of the fire.

A few pics, will take a few more when outside.

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Regards
Mick.

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  Grahambro on Thu 13 Aug 2015, 2:47 am

Great looking engine Mick. Good luck with your first firing. Agree with you without STW we wouldn't have the opportunity to own these engines.

Graham

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  LiveSteam on Thu 13 Aug 2015, 1:33 pm

Lovely job and agree with you totally, even though I'm not a builder, just an owner, I doubt I would ever have been able to own one without the support of STW

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  bazzer on Fri 14 Aug 2015, 3:28 am

Hi Mick,
Well done.
Quick question, is the motion works painted on blackened.

Bazzer

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  Mick1020 on Fri 14 Aug 2015, 1:36 pm

Hi Bazzer, I sprayed the motion works with an industrial satin black 1K paint, which have used in past for the motor industries, i see that you started on an agri build looking very good so far, you have great fun building it, i did.

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  Mick1020 on Fri 14 Aug 2015, 1:51 pm

Hi to all of you,
Could some tell me what would be the oil consumption  for oil wells eg mains, big ends, main axel, second shaft, motion works, its just a check that the wicks are all working ok.

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  Grahambro on Sun 16 Aug 2015, 4:07 am

Hi Mick
Mine last for the day when running but empty themselves in 2 days if left - except for the main crank bearing boxes which take a week.
I found you can vary this by making the trimmings thicker so they are a tighter fit in the tube, this slows the oil consumption or make them thinner by twisting more which will allow more oil in. I used the kit from herritage steam supplies but the copper wire from 1.0mm CSA thin wall automotive cable - this combination has worked really well for me - I like to see oil on all journals.

Graham

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  Mick1020 on Sun 16 Aug 2015, 1:47 pm

Hi Graham
Many thanks for info, have checked them & found that they are not supplying oil at the same rate, i used cotton wool for the wicks, will order the wick kit & re-do all of them.
regards Mick

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  Grahambro on Sun 16 Aug 2015, 2:19 pm

Hi Mick
I tried a few different materials but found the thinner worsted wool Herritage steam supplied worked best for me along with a single strand of copper from the 1mm wire.
Glad your first steaming went well - most of my leaks sorted themselves out on 2nd and 3rd steaming. I don't get a knock when I turn pump on just a slight noise from the actual pump but I did have to make a new jib key for big end along with some adjustment of the bearing to stop the knock when I first ran on air - jib key was too narrow on the taper and did nothing to tighten the bearing and the bearing itself was oval.

Graham.

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  Mick1020 on Mon 17 Aug 2015, 3:31 pm

Hi Graham,
I did notice when i was lapping the big end bearing in that it was a touch oval & it did take a time in removing with the time saver compound, when i ran on air i did not notice the knock, will check the jib key & see if it does lock up the bearing to the crank journal,
I do get the click/clack noise from the ball bearings when pump is on & it does work feeding water to boiler as this was my first thing to check when i steamed it first,
By the way Graham forgot to ask about oil consumption on the Cyl oil pump, it is pumping & i could increase it by drilling another hole in the arm if needed, it would be good to know what the average is i.e how long a full tank would last when running
Regards
Mick

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  Grahambro on Tue 18 Aug 2015, 1:08 am

Hi Mick,
My big end bearing was out of round by 5 thou - I skimmed the two halfs of the bearing to get it round.
Had similar issues with the main crank bearings and ended up scraping these to fit - had one of the adjusters come loose on the flywheel end main bearing and that caused a knock.
My pump does make a distinct noise when not on bypass, like what you described.
I scrapped the STW lubricator as it kept sticking and I don't like roller clutches in this size. It did work for a while if I left the fitting at the ram end half a turn loose but struggled when notched back so I swapped it for a Live Steam models ratchet lubricator. With the STW lubricator I was filling it every 3 hours when running on the road but the LSM lubricator uses twice as much even when notched back. I did drill an additional hole to increase the output to try to improve things. You can check to see if it is sticking by running the engine and looking into the lubricator at the ram - it should return fully to the cam driving it. Mine did at low RPM but didn't when the speed was increased until I loosened the fitting. I did fit stronger springs but don't fully trust the design - I do know people who still use the STW lubricator and have no issues but I prefer the ratchet type.

Graham

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  LiveSteam on Tue 18 Aug 2015, 1:20 pm

Mick1020 wrote:
By the way Graham forgot to ask about oil consumption on the Cyl oil pump, it is pumping & i could increase it by drilling another hole in the arm if needed, it would be good to know what the average is i.e how long a full tank would last when running
Regards
Mick

If it helps my early MW Agri tends to use about a tank per couple of hours if ticking over but like Grahams one starts to get sketchy at above tick over and consumption drops as the roller clutch sticks, however after over 18mths the top of the chimney is always quite oily and not dry which is a reasonable sign of lube.
Having said that I'm in the process of changing it as its pretty old now and the clutch bearings need more and more cleaning out with the regulation WD40 Very Happy so I'm fitting a Foster one from RA Barker.

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  Mick1020 on Wed 19 Aug 2015, 4:22 pm

Hi Graham
Have checked big end & i can lock up bearing but did noticed that the Jib key was sticking as the load was introduce by the nut, rounded corners a touch & refit with some graphite grease, this sorted the adjustment out, I also checked the mains out & the flywheel end did need a small amount of adjustment.
Then i built the lubricator i did notice that the ram was sticking so i remove a small about from the nipple which was clamping the o rings also polished the ram shaft, re-checked & no sticking even when turn as fast as i could turn by hand. I will keep a close eye on it, When I steam next will be for a longer time to get the pressure up to test the safety valve & the steam injector, I will have engine running for longer & will give me a good indication of oil consumption with the lubricator,
Many thanks for the info Graham & Livesteam, most appreciated.
Hoping for good weather for weekend for the second steaming, Still thinking of a name for her.

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  Mick1020 on Mon 24 Aug 2015, 2:34 pm

Hi all,
Steam for the second time, raised pressure up to test steam injector & safety valves, the safety's went at 135psi & then cut off at 120 so need to adjust spring a bit, will wait till next time to take her for a spin, i am checking the engine out to make sure its all working as it should before driving her. It is priming as well with speed increase which is to be expected so blowing boiler down, I did flush boiler out during build so the priming will slow up soon.

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This video is taken after the safety's had been tested,



Looking forward to next steaming,
All the best Mick

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  IanL on Tue 25 Aug 2015, 10:24 am

Great looking engine and great to see it come to life.
Ian

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  Grahambro on Tue 25 Aug 2015, 10:32 am

Hi Mick,
Engine looks great.
One question, did you make the wooden floor in your tender?

Graham


Last edited by Grahambro on Wed 26 Aug 2015, 1:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  LiveSteam on Tue 25 Aug 2015, 11:59 am

Mick1020 wrote:Hi all,
Steam for the second time, raised pressure up to test steam injector & safety valves, the safety's went at 135psi & then cut off at 120 so need to adjust spring a bit, will wait till next time to take her for a spin, i am checking the engine out to make sure its all working as it should before driving her. It is priming as well with speed increase which is to be expected so blowing boiler down, I did flush boiler out during build so the priming will slow up soon.

Lovely job, from what I've heard just tweak the safeties one flat at a time, another Mick on here had his similar and found one flat on the nut sorted it just fine. Yep plenty of blow downs and wash outs should slow the priming down, I think some have even just boiled the engine up with the safeties removed to aid the cleaning process.

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  bazzer on Wed 26 Aug 2015, 8:39 am

Hi Mick,
Please excuse my ignorance, you said that your engine is priming and this will reduce after it has run for a while, what exactly does it mean when you say it is priming ?

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  LiveSteam on Wed 26 Aug 2015, 12:42 pm

I may be able to assist here.......

Well my understanding of priming is the water foams up inside the boiler and then gets into the cylinder and then of course out of the chimney which then rains down on you at the very least, at the worst it can hydralic the cylinder and pop cylinder covers off Sad

The water foams due to the impurities in it, like cutting oil and preservation oil on the metal , this can also happen if you put too much water treatment in to the boiler.

The more you use and wash the boiler out the less this occurs as the impurities get washed out, I've only suffered this a couple of time due to over exuberance addition of treatment, but generally once I've used about a tender full of water it dies back, but its a bit of a mare when its happening as everything gets soaked including the driver, its wise to run with the drain cock wide open if its happening.

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  bazzer on Wed 26 Aug 2015, 2:14 pm

Many thanks for the explanation.
Something to think about when I finish my agri, unfortunately not for a year and a half yet though.

Barry

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  Mick1020 on Wed 26 Aug 2015, 3:45 pm

Hi Graham, I did make the wooden floor for the foot plate, i think it just finishes the tender off, a personal touch.


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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  Mick1020 on Wed 26 Aug 2015, 3:54 pm

LiveSteam wrote:I may be able to assist here.......

Well my understanding of priming is the water foams up inside the boiler and then gets into the cylinder and then of course out of the chimney which then rains down on you at the very least, at the worst it can hydralic the cylinder and pop cylinder covers off Sad

The water foams due to the impurities in it, like cutting oil and preservation oil on the metal , this can also happen if you put too much water treatment in to the boiler.

The more you use and wash the boiler out the less this occurs as the impurities get washed out, I've only suffered this a couple of time due to over exuberance addition of treatment, but generally once I've used about a tender full of water it dies back, but its a bit of a mare when its happening as everything gets soaked including the driver, its wise to run with the drain cock wide open if its happening.

Thats a great explanation LiveSteam of priming of steam boilers.

A simple example of this is the pressure cooker, when boiling water the boiling point is increased thus cooking food faster but then done as the food in water is an impurity you have to let pressure  reduce slowly out i.e turn heat off & turn pressure valve down in segments to drop off pressure, if you let the pressure go at once then water & steam will spray all over your cooker, my wife has done this & blames the pressure cooker is faulty.

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  lynnr on Thu 27 Aug 2015, 9:32 am

Here is a couple videos of the process from inside a pressure vessel..






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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  bazzer on Thu 27 Aug 2015, 1:06 pm

Thank you Lynn.
Brilliant vedeo.
Really explains the issue well.

Barry

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Re: New build of a Burrell

Post  Mick1020 on Mon 31 Aug 2015, 1:31 pm

Hi all,
On my first steaming there was a knocking sound, that sound was still there after checking big end & mains on the second steaming, i was sure it was the pump so close checking when running i saw the horn plate moving a touch, water pump ram was not bottoming out so pump was hydraulicing, check with Steve at STW & was sorted, he sent me over a new eccentric with a lower stroke, the one in the my kit was the old type which was not the updated one, I was so happy that there was a solution & i was not mad & hearing banging noise.
Now fitted,roll on weekend for next steaming

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Re: New build of a Burrell

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