Lubrication

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Lubrication

Post  Big Al on Wed 15 Apr 2009, 10:18 am

All this fitting and testing the bearings has made me wonder what oil to use. I am using 3 in 1 cycle oil at the moment just to lubricate the bearings and am wondering what I should be using. Will good old 'Duckams 20/50' or similar motor oil do or is it too thick for the small diameter oil pipes?

Alan

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Re: Lubrication

Post  northburrell on Wed 15 Apr 2009, 1:53 pm

Hi Al

Ye normal engine oil will be fine. steam engines are total loss lubricated and tend to just waste oil more than anything! they tend to fling and dribble oil from everywere! mainly over the driver. Laughing
you'll need some steam oil for the lubricator. you can get this from polly models or reeves.

Jo

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Re: Lubrication

Post  hughb on Thu 16 Apr 2009, 9:48 am

northburrell wrote:Hi Al

Ye normal engine oil will be fine. steam engines are total loss lubricated and tend to just waste oil more than anything! they tend to fling and dribble oil from everywere! mainly over the driver. Laughing
you'll need some steam oil for the lubricator. you can get this from polly models or reeves.

Jo
HI This sounds like fun to me .I have been using car engine oil as it gose in my lath and it is a bit thicker .
Thanks for the heads up guys Very Happy

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Re: Lubrication

Post  BUNGLE on Thu 16 Apr 2009, 9:51 am

HI AL,
ON THE TRACTION TALK WEBSITE RECENTLY, OILS WHERE DISCUSSED (I THINK ALSO ON THE MODEL ENGINEERING CLEARING HOUSE SITE), ONE THING THAT DID COME UP ON BOTH WAS THAT 'NORMAL' ENGINE OIL I.E COMPOUNDED, CAN EFFECT BRONZE BEARINGS, SO A NON-COMPOUNDED BEARING OIL WAS RECOMMENDED.
WE HAVE USED ENGINE OIL JUST FOR BUILD UP, BUT WILL RESEARCH THE ABOVE FURTHER BEFORE RUNNING OUR ENGINE. OF COURSE WE WILL NEED STEAM IN CYLINDER, BUT NOT SURE WHICH GRADE - ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT STEVE ??

BUNGLE

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Re: Lubrication

Post  Vapor on Fri 17 Apr 2009, 1:14 am

Hi Bungle,

I would have thought 680 grade would be used as the Burrell is not superheated. geek

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Re: Lubrication

Post  LilyJack on Fri 17 Apr 2009, 4:41 am

I spent a good hour or so trolling through websites looking at lubricants for the crank,axles etc, I'm wondering whether something like a "graphite" based grease would be good for the axles and main drive gears, ok so it cant be "drip" fed down oil tubes but I'm wondering whether a nipple can be squeezed in somewhere inconspicuous to enable a grease gun to be used? Just thinking that using something along those lines would greatly increase life and reduce wear to almost minimal amounts? Also there's an awful lot of synthetic oils around so it would seem that are water and steam resisitant (obviously not looking at this for the cylinder chest etc) that look as if they'd do the job for the crank bearings and such like, with low friction and water resistivity and high adhesive properties, just wondering if that would be ideal for use in the environment of the gear/crank area?

Your thoughts on this anyone? Seems quite an open option doesn't it.

Best Regards

LilyJack Cool

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Re: Lubrication

Post  northburrell on Fri 17 Apr 2009, 7:27 am

Hi everyone.

I just use the cheapest engine oil i can find for my Loco's. but yes it's an open ended subject i guess and oil is generally oil but some experimentation is allways a good thing..The front axle has a grease gun nipple as it has some were for the grease to go and sit while it rotates. I think a grease nipple in the front and rear axles might just make it seep out the side of the hub all over everything as it has no were to really go. I would go with the standard oil pots for these parts. As for steam oil well I just get mine from a full size railway source. you can get different grades of oil and like vaper says it's not superheated.. I use the same stuff for all my engine's and my 1" scale Minnie traction engine I was tearing around on the other weekend (yes it does pull me allong very well) I was covered in oil at end of it so it must have been getting through to the Cylinder ok.. Any oil is better than no oil Very Happy

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Re: Lubrication

Post  BUNGLE on Sun 19 Apr 2009, 12:23 pm

HI JO,
YOUR QUOTE OF 'OIL IS GENERALLY OIL', IS SOOOOO MIS-GUIDED. HAVING WORKED IN THE MOTOR TRADE, IN THE RACE CAR SECTION, THEN AS A ENGINE PARTS MANAGER FOR A MUTLI-NATIONAL SPECIALIST SUPPLIER, BEFORE GOING OUT ON MY OWN, THAT TYPE OF THINKING SAW MANY WREAKED ENGINES, AND INVALIDATED WARRANTIES. OIL COMPANYS DO NOT SPENDS MILLIONS ON RESEARCH, AND WORKING WITH ENGINE BUILDERS TO HAVE 'JUST PUT ANY OLD OIL WILL DO' IN.
I AM IN NO WAY, SPAPE, OR FORM AN OIL SPECALIST, BUT BECAUSE OF THE ABOVE I DO KNOW THAT IT CAN BE A COMPLEX SUBJECT. AS SUCH I WILL DO MY RESEARCH, AND TAKE ADVICE FROM SPECIALISTS THAT I KNOW AND TRUST, ALONG WITH THOSE OF THE DESIGNERS OF OUR ENGINES.

SORRY IF ALL THAT SOUNDS ABIT HEAVY, BUT I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE ANY OF US FALL FAIL TO SOME OF THE FAILURES I'VE SEEN IN OTHER FIELDS.

BUNGLE

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Re: Lubrication

Post  northburrell on Mon 20 Apr 2009, 1:49 pm

Hi Bungle.

That all sounds logical for a car yes I totally agree but for a steam engine it's not too important. like I say the oil is total loss that means what you put in just runs through does it's job of lubrication and out all over everthing, thats why steam engines are generally so messy and dirty.
For cars it's re-used and is sealed in there.. I wouldn't want to run my Porshce Turbo on just any old oil.. Dont forget that car engines rev a hell of allot faster than a traction engine ever will and i dont think they had that many posh oils back in the 1890's when full size engines were running every hour of every day..

If people want to try out different oils and synthetic oils then thats great they should do that, In my view a steam engine just needs oil that's it, as long as it's oil and it's were it should be in the oil cups etc then the job's a goodun.. The most important part to lubricate is the cylinder.. steam oil again there are diffrent grades, Traction engines are wet steam so I'm going to get new grade as my Loco's are all superheated like Vapor says..

Jo


Last edited by northburrell on Wed 22 Apr 2009, 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Lubrication

Post  Steve Traill on Mon 20 Apr 2009, 2:45 pm

When I was running in my 4'' Burrell from MW I used a 10:40 mineral oil which is fairly thin. This is good for getting everywhere important although it runs through pretty quick and splashes the driver. After about 25 hours of steaming I then ran it on EP90 which being a Land Rover owner I have plenty of. This lasted better in the oil pots and has provided sufficient lubrication over the last three years to the point that nothing is showing any signs of wear. Initially there was some tightening up required on various bearings but once run in all has been well. It doesn't splash much either. On the full size engines a number of owners use chain saw oil as it is less likely to spray all over the driver and it clings well to anything it's poured over. Most of the full size engine owners down my way don't bother too much on quality so long as it's thick & cheap!! Basketball Basketball

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Re: Lubrication

Post  northburrell on Tue 21 Apr 2009, 6:52 am

I like the words thick and cheap sounds just about right to me..

Cheers Steve.

Jo


Last edited by northburrell on Wed 22 Apr 2009, 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Lubrication

Post  hughb on Tue 21 Apr 2009, 1:30 pm

HI
Thanks sound good to me . Not thort of cainsaw oil as we use it at work {gess were} bounce Wink Razz

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