newbie getting his budget sorted out

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newbie getting his budget sorted out

Post  Steamtractionlover on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 9:58 am

Hi to all,

first off all this is my first post

I am wanting to get the 4" burrell traction engine however before that happens I need to get the funds. This will be the first time I have ever done a project like this and so I want to plan ahead and know how much everything will cost me so that I can start saving. I know this is going to take a few years however I plan to start saving on my 17th birthday.

I already know the price of the engine so that is not a problem. There are two thing I would like from you if you can provide them.

1. A list of all tool needed to complete the kits and the engine

2. A list of all equipment/tools (including cleaning equipment) needed to run and fire the engine

That will then allowed me to go off armed with a list of everything I need so that I can add up the total cost and not leave anything out also please remember I am a newbie so please state the obvious things I need for example coal.

Thanks for your help in getting me started in what I fell will be a life long love affair with traction engines Very Happy .

Steamtractionlover

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Re: newbie getting his budget sorted out

Post  lynnr on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 11:43 am

Hi

No problem. Think I did this in my picture thread but I will have another go.

Tools

Hand
Metric spanner set 6mm to 22mm, most used 6, 8, 10, 13 , 15, 17, 19
Imperial spanner set 1/8" to 1" would be useful.
Socket set. same size range metric, 1/8" to 1" imperial would also be good.
BA spanners. I managed with the socket sets above.
Soft face hammer.
Normal hammer.
3 flat blade screwdrivers. small, medium and large.
Couple clamps.
Mole grips 6"
Workmate or workbench.
Vice is handy.

Power tools
4" grinder,
40 grit flap wheels
80 grit flap wheels

Drill, Electric.
flap sanding barrels. 40/80 grit
Drill set 3 to 10mm will do most hole clearing if needed.

If you have a problem with threads, good chance if you do not have the tool, you could borrow.

Construction Consumables
40,80 grit flap wheels,
Couple sanding barrels for the spokes,
Emery paper, 200, 400, 800 grit. few sheets of each.
Finger puncture repair kit.
4ltr of top coat paint
1.5ltr of primer, undercoat
1ltr etch primer.
Thread lock, comes in wheel kits, should do the full engine.
Finger puncture repair kit.
Paint thinners
Couple good brushes for painting.
Lining tape and paints.
Paint mixing cups for paint stirring and brush cleaning.
Iso-flex, inc primer and cleaner or equivalent for wheel rubbers and water tank.
Bunch of flowers for partner as a sorry for the mess with the above.
£50 towards road registration etc.


Running kit.
Overalls
Sun hat, only needed south of the country.
Soap and swafega hand cleaner.
gloves, working required to take heat.
Cylinder oil, few litres a year.
Bearing oil, few litres a year.
Coal, I use approx 300Kg a year non rally field. (Last year rally supply was good so no private coal used at rally)
kindling, old fencing and anything left from woodwork. Be cautious of pallets, some have nasty insecticide in them.
Lighter
Lighter gas
Paraffin for lighting up.
Worsted wool and copper wire for oiler wicks.
Plasters for fingers.
Trailer to tow it all.
Rags for cleaning, once dirty used for lighting up. Old towels, shirts etc from the house cut up work well.
(DO NOT keep oily rags in a bucket or bunched up in a pile. Possible to spontaneously combustion)
£150 to £200 insurance.
£300 for inspection per year for commercial inspection. Or club at a fraction of the cost.
Beer money.......

This will give you a good idea what is needed.

But most of all. ENJOY the build.

lynnr

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Re: newbie getting his budget sorted out

Post  LiveSteam on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 1:02 pm

Nice set of lists Lynn  Cool 

Another thing that might be worth adding to the "Running Kit" is Boiler Treatment, although I've heard some don't use it Shocked 


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Thanks two more question (for now)

Post  Steamtractionlover on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 2:02 pm

Thank-you to both of you for your reply's

Can any one explain how a traction engine works?

Could someone give me an insight into starting driving and shutting the engine just want a taste of what I got to look forward to. Also if possible could someone provide a picture of the foot plate so that I can see the control and if you can explain what they do.

Sorry If I am asking for to much I just love learning about things especially if it involves steam.

Thanks again



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Re: newbie getting his budget sorted out

Post  lynnr on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 11:03 pm



Top left. Steering wheel.
Below steering wheel, flywheel brake if fitted.
Right of flywheel brake, cylinder drain cock lever. Used to empty water out of cylinder before you start moving the pistons.
Next to the right, big lump of brass. Mechanical water pump. Runs all the time but lever on front lets the water back into the tank. Close valve forces water into boiler. Crank must be running for this to work.

Next over. Pressure gauge. Essential.
Small valve to right of pressure gauge. Shut off tap incase of problems with gauge.
Above gauge.  Regulator handle. The go faster bit.
Bigger valve to the right of the gauge.  Steam injector steam valve. Used with water valve to balance the injector to make it work and put water in boiler. Can bE used stationary.
Below and right of the injector valve.  Water sight glass. Shows how much water in boiler. Remember that the slope of the road effects this level ALOT.
Right of water glass. Big lever. The forward and reverse selector, also used to economise on steam needed by altering the piston valve timing.
Above right of the reversing lever. Gear selection.
Big dirty hole at the bottom. There be fire! Feed with coal and do bacon and egg on the shovel.


Last edited by lynnr on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

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Re: newbie getting his budget sorted out

Post  Steam Traction World on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 12:01 am

Great replies Lynn....thank you...if u ever get bored of the new job & we ever become big enough for a full time customer support person then we know where to come.  Very Happy 

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Consider the SAC?

Post  Tim Watson on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 12:10 am

Worth considering joining the Steam Apprentice Club of the National Traction Engine Trust (NTET). Membership is cheap and continues until you're 21. We are having SAC driving days at Oaklands College, St Albans on 19-20th July. I will be steaming at the Sandridge 900+ Gala this Saturday afternoon, 21st June. (You can google all of these)

PM me if interested.
Tim

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Re: newbie getting his budget sorted out

Post  LiveSteam on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 10:42 am

lynnr wrote:Small valve to right of pressure gauge. Shit off tap incase of problems with gauge..

LOL brilliant typo, I can imagine if there was a problem with the gauge then the ..........off tap would be very handy LOL


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thanks

Post  Steamtractionlover on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 4:28 am

Thanks for all your reply's

for a little engine it has quite a few controls and good typeo by the way on that post  Very Happy 

question: what is the purpose of the fly wheel on a traction engine is this what makes it move I have seen videos where the fly wheel is spinning but the engine is not moving could someone explain. Question

thanks 

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Re: newbie getting his budget sorted out

Post  Tony King on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 7:08 am

The "actual engine", is the power unit which sits on top of the boiler & the flywheel is on the crank shaft of the engine.

The flywheel is a large mass, which, when rotating is designed to make the engine run smoothly, without it, the crank shaft would accelerate & decelerate erratically as the pistons push the connecting rods backwards & forwards

The flywheel will always rotate when the "actual engine" is working! However unless you have selected a gear to make the Traction engine move, the flywheel will rotate & the Traction engine will be stationary!
A Showmans engine for example, would be stationary, but the "engine (& therefore flywheel) rotating when generating power for a ride, when a belt is run on the flywheel circumference to a pulley on the generator at the front of the Traction engine
For an Agricultural engine, it might be driving farm equipment such as a thrashing machine or saw bench.
If a Road loco, then the driver' probably standing around with a beer in his hand!! Twisted Evil 

Even the most modern day engines, be it cars, lorries or super tankers at sea, have flywheels on their engines for the same reasons, to smooth out the rotational speed of the engine, as the "power strokes" try to accelerate the crank shaft!!

Hope this explanation makes some kind of sense? Others on the forum will probably do better.... Lynn... Over to you  Very Happy 

Regards,
Tony

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Re: newbie getting his budget sorted out

Post  lynnr on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 10:57 am

Thanks Tony

Explaining how a steam engine works. Humm

Well.

Get a high carbon fuel source to decompose in the presence of oxygen producing kilo joules of energy per minute. This is used to raise the latent heat content of another compound. Turning the compound from a dense liquid into a vapor in a constrained volume. This produces a potential energy gradient that can be used to move a disk of a solid element within the required temperature range constrained withing a linear vessel. This movement is then translated from a linear reciprocating motion into an angular acceleration. The angular acceleration is then constrained and translated into a rotational moment. The constantly varying angular moment is dampened by a rotational mass at a radius from the centre of rotation. This useful kinetic energy is then absorbed by various elemental constructs with meshing between the rotating elements. Some energy being lost due to molecular imperfections, stickion and hydralic heating of vicious fluids. The final result is the rotation of 4 circular devices against a bituminous or organic linear surface to produce a linear acceleration on a greater curve on planet earth.

Translation.

Burn coal to make water turn into steam pressure. Steam goes into cylinders and moves the pistons. The pistons push and pull the crank rods by the little end and being held by the cross heads to stop the pistons gouging the cylinder walls. The "little end" is part of the crank rods. The other end is the "big ends" being wrapped round the crankshaft. The crankshaft turns with the motion being smoothed out by the flywheel. This is connected by gears eventually to the road wheels producing travelling motion.

The difference between a railway loco and a road loco being gears. Railway loco, normally does not have any, so when the crank rotates the loco must move.

Road loco has gears that can be taken in and out of mesh. When no gear is selected, ie neutral gear, the crank is disconnected totally from the road wheels. This allows the engine, the pistons in th cylinder block, to produce other useful work. The most common is to use the surface of the flywheel to carry a belt. The belt being able to transfer the power to another device. I.e. Dynamo in the case of a Showman. Or by virtue of a longer belt to drive a thresher drum, stone crusher or other agricultural device.

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how far will it go

Post  Steamtractionlover on Thu 19 Jun 2014, 6:29 pm

How far will I be able to travel on the engine before I need to stop I am planning to get the water browser so please take that into account and what's the top speed of this engine correct me if I wrong but I,would guess its about 10mph. Even a newbie like me knows that traction engine are not built for speed. Very Happy 

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Re: newbie getting his budget sorted out

Post  Tim Watson on Fri 20 Jun 2014, 12:14 am

Distance covered depends on the hills encountered. The agricultural will cover about 6 miles with the bowser. The RL significantly more, but I don't have a bowser for this. My SRL covered 7.5 miles on the tender and belly tank the other day, but that was on a very hard work route. It is much more efficient than the agricultural.

The agricultural will average 3 mph with stops with a top speed of 5 mph. The RL will comfortably run at 5 mph average with a top speed of 10 mph: it will go faster, but it is easier to get into a mess than it is to get out of it.

You must never get to the point where there is no water in reserve.

Tim

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Re: newbie getting his budget sorted out

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