Kit 3 Smokebox

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Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  storey on Thu 29 May 2014, 3:36 am

I received Kit 3 yesterday, I have a question regarding the Brass Burrell ring that goes on the front. The one we received says "the Burrell Traction Engine". I thought that Burrell Single Crank compounds had "The Burrell Patent Engine" or the "Burrell Road Locomotive" ?

I say this because I cannot find evidence of a Single Crank Compound road locomotive with the Traction Engine ring on it.

Any input greatly appreciated.

Paul

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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  Fodenjohn on Thu 29 May 2014, 9:22 am

I was wondering the same thing, i'll search the books and report back.

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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  storey on Thu 29 May 2014, 4:15 pm

The two I know of are Hawkes a Scc road loco with the patent engine plate and Janet a Scc road loco with the Road Locomotive plate. I don't want to fit a Traction Engine one just because it's easy for Steam Traction world to use the same kit as the single cylinder engine. I'd like the correct plate for the model I am building which is a Road locomotive not a single cylinder traction engine.

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SCC Smokebox Ring

Post  Tim Pennett on Fri 30 May 2014, 5:20 pm

Paul,

I would suggest there is no hard and fast answer to this. Some Single Crank Compound Engine carried the title "Patient" on both the Smokebox Ring and cast iron Valve Chest Covers from 1889 until the patient expired in 1902 whilst others left the works with the normal title "Traction Engine".

The number of SCC Road Engines turned out by Burrell's was very low, principally due to the superiority of the DCC; however, those with a Road Loco Specification either 2 or 3 speed with springing, solid flywheel, belly tanks etc appear to carry the "Road Locomotive" title.

The popularity of 4" Scale SCC Road Loco's is probably due to the relatively simple construction compared to a DCC and is essentially the Agricultural SC/SCC with belly tanks and solid flywheel.

If you are building a Road Loco, I would consider adding Balances to the crankshaft (as some were) and fitting springing to the front axle to eliminate the hammering action which (a full size) SCC engine creates.

So what am I saying? - It's a Burrell; there are no hard and fast rules, it's what they had to hand at the time!

Best of luck with the build and I look forward to your progress.

Tim

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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  storey on Sun 01 Jun 2014, 1:09 am

Ok well I decided to give the benefit of the doubt , however on assembly today I've come across another problem.

The smoke box has the holes for the walk board that wouldn't be fitted to a road locomotive.







So this looks like it is just the same kit as for the 4" single cylinder. I think they have overlooked the differences between the two as a road locomotive would have a different smoke box plate and no walk board

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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  ChriX on Sun 01 Jun 2014, 7:41 am

I'm away at the moment so can't check my smoke box but can you let us know what answer you get regarding the extra holes? If they aren't meant to be there perhaps they can be filled with weld but I wouldn't want to risk distortion.

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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  storey on Mon 02 Jun 2014, 6:15 am

Spoke with Steve today, we will get M4 screws to put in the holes and then can grind them off. The name plate is apparently fine because Burrells were all different anyway. there are also. 2 holes in the horn plates that will need the M4 screws too.

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Hinge

Post  storey on Mon 09 Jun 2014, 11:18 am

See below


Last edited by storey on Mon 09 Jun 2014, 11:20 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Double post)

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Hinge

Post  storey on Mon 09 Jun 2014, 11:19 am

I've not fitted the hinge yet, do I need to hammer the pins through the holes as it's a tight fit and it's starting to bend the hinge! I've already painted the door as you can see!


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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  Tim Watson on Mon 09 Jun 2014, 3:11 pm

I would definitely ease off both components: they should not be that tight.

Tim

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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  IanL on Wed 11 Jun 2014, 1:47 am

I agree with Tim definitely ease them off as you will want to open the door. Mine was a snug fit but went in with only hand pressure no need to hammer.
Ian

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Axle

Post  storey on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 1:05 pm

Has anyone fitted their wheels to the axle yet ? I have had another disappointing day, the pins for the wheel retaining collars are too big for the hole in the collars. Have damaged my paintwork in the process of fitting them. Pretty fed up with the fact that every hole has to be re drilled on these kits.


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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  highpressure on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 1:42 pm

I agree that it is frustrating to find little niggles like this and hopefully the control model will help iron these things out before they reach you but a lesson learnt here is to pre check all fitting tolerances on a "dry run" before assembly with painted surfaces that can be damaged. Certainly something to keep in mind as tge build progresses. Keep the faith though its all worth it once in steam.

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Axle

Post  Simon B on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 1:46 pm

Hi

I had the same issue when fitting the wheel on one side, in my case it was the axle flange to the hole was a bit short so when the wheel was on the hole in the collar an axle didn't align. In the end I turned a bit off the axle (only 0.5mm) or so and now the collar and pin fit the same as the other side. I was fortunate that a friend has a lathe with a long enough bed.

I hope this helps.

Cheers

Simon

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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  skench on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 2:35 pm

I had the same problem but I think it was caused by the fact that I had not recessed the bearing in far enough.

Try as I might I could not move the bearing (a couple of weeks later) after the loctite had gone off so I also removed about 0.5mm off the shoulder of the axle.

Cheers
Stephen

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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  Tim Watson on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 6:31 pm

Anther solution to this problem is to grind/machine a flat on the pin to accommodate the discrepancy, or to reduce the collar, if that's where the problem is. No bad thing to put a lead on the pin anyway.

On my SRL, I was reassembling the right hind wheel and had to do the same exercise the other day, whereas previously this had gone on OK. Must have been the way the engine was sitting with jack only on one side.

Always assemble and check before painting.

Tim

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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  Tony King on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 3:23 am

I would agree absolutely, that all the kits should be "dry" assembled before you do anything else. You are dealing with parts that have been machined to a few thousands of an inch, & just a small "bur" will make all the difference between "fitting nicely" or NOT!! ( Even the paint will stop parts fitting!!) Also, We all have different mechanical aptitudes & tools to work with, which can also introduce errors as we build!! It is true, that sometimes we have to do that extra bit of "easing" to get components to fit as they should, & on very rare occasions there might be a machining error from STW, but a phone call to Steve or Dean usually has a new part in the post same day!!

I actually completely assembled my first engine before any paint went onto it, however on my Showman's, I built every kit up & only when happy with the fit to all associated components, did I paint! Nothing worse than spending hours & hours getting a beautiful paint finish with all those little details like lining etc etc, to then go chip/ scrape it!!  Evil or Very Mad Even you Road Local guys would agree with that Twisted Evil   Twisted Evil 

There is a big difference between damaging the paint & it giving it that "used look" when the engine is fired.... this is of course something of which I know nothing about!! Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy 

Kev is right & he certainly knows about "frustrations" of building...... it'll be worth it in the end!! cheers 

Regards,
Tony


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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  ChriX on Mon 07 Jul 2014, 2:49 pm

Do people paint the inside of the smokebox? I have some exhaust paint that I've done the back of the door and the baffle plate with but is it worth doing the inside? I would expect it just to get blasted off at the first incline.

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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  lynnr on Mon 07 Jul 2014, 10:45 pm

I did mine and it is still there.

The main part for rust is the bottom and it does not get as hot so the paint will last longer.

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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  ChriX on Tue 08 Jul 2014, 1:42 pm

Thanks lynn. I think I read somewhere that you used the Plastikote BBQ paint? If so how many coats did you do? I have just done the front of my door and it's a flawless finish which is unusual for me so I am loathed to put more coats on, but at the same time concerned it's probably a bit thin.

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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  lynnr on Tue 08 Jul 2014, 1:59 pm

I have a couple coats. Then baked to harden.

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hinge pins not fitting!

Post  Alan Grant on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 1:59 pm

[quote="storey"]I've not fitted the hinge yet, do I need to hammer the pins through the holes as it's a tight fit and it's starting to bend the hinge! I've already painted the door as you can see!

Storey, did you ever get your pins to fit? I'm just putting everything together and the pins won't go through the hinge or the door.

The draw bolt also isn't fitting! I've filed it down slightly but will have to do this further for the bolt to rotate in the door.

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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  lynnr on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 2:22 pm

Hi

The rivets should be a snug fit but finger push in. You need to use the snap as supplied to support the rivet and hammer over the inside to rivet on. If you have distorted the hinge. It will stop the pin fitting as the holes will be out of alignment.  You can gently hammer and vice grip the hinge to bring it back in allignment. Once it is close gently run a drill of matching size to the pin through to "fudge" the through hole into a more round fit for the pin.

The dart that holds the door shut. It could be the spacer is out of allignment. I put my bolt in. Then tighten the bolts on the spacer and diffuser plate.

Just a hint. A photo of the part in question also helps to get an accurate reply. Hope this all helps.

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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  ChriX on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 2:28 pm

Alan Grant wrote:
Storey, did you ever get your pins to fit? I'm just putting everything together and the pins won't go through the hinge or the door.

The draw bolt also isn't fitting! I've filed it down slightly but will have to do this further for the bolt to rotate in the door.

The pins were far too large for my door and hinge, I enlarged the holes in both using a 0.1mm increment drill bit set and just going one size up from the one that fitted through as is. Also I didn't get a snap for these small rivets in my kit so made one up on the lathe, but then as Lynn says hammer over the inside to fill the countersunk hole. I shortened my rivets before even starting this as they were far too long.

As for the draw bar it is a good fit but was too tight as standard - I ran a 10mm drill through the centre of all the components just to ease it a bit. Nothing much came out but after this it's a good sliding fit. Remember it doesn't have to turn more than a quarter of a turn when in use, plus you have a lever.

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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

Post  Alan Grant on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 2:44 pm

Thanks Lynn and Chris for the info and quick response, will have a look at this again tomorrow.

Can't recall seeing a snap for the rivets but there has been a few bolts, washers and nuts missing from this kit.

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Re: Kit 3 Smokebox

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