Wheel rivets..

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Wheel rivets..

Post  LilyJack on Sat 04 Apr 2009, 12:29 pm

Bungle, this question will probably find an answer from you, I'm thinking about running over the nuts on the wheel rivets with a T.I.G welder just to secure them in a finalized state obviously when everythings at a stage where it doesnt need to be dis-assembled. Anyones thoughts on this?

Regards

LilyJack

ps: Hughb, pictures of old beer bottles.. How old do ya think I am ya cheeky burger!!!!!!!!! Evil or Very Mad haha.
Wheels look good incidentally..

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Re: Wheel rivets..

Post  northburrell on Sat 04 Apr 2009, 9:30 pm

Hi lilyjack.

The loctite will be enough to keep the nuts on the wheels rivets.. I had to take mine off after loctiting and i had to heat up the nuts to get them off.. once there on they wont come off in a hurry..
I didnt use the epoxy like they said but oppted to see if it needs it first and check after a few runs. i didnt really see the point in it as it shuoldnt need expoxy. but it's and easy thing to do if it turns out to need it.

hope this helps..

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Re: Wheel rivets..

Post  LilyJack on Sun 05 Apr 2009, 4:35 am

Yup, fair enough an answer for me..
Cheers NorthBurrell

LilyJack Cool

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Re: Wheel rivets..

Post  BUNGLE on Sun 05 Apr 2009, 1:02 pm

HI LILYJACK,
AS JO SAYS THE RIVET BOLTS DON'T NEED TIG WELDING REALLY, WE'VE GOT A TIG AND DIDN'T BOTHER TO GO THAT ROUTE. WE DID PUT EVERY NUT UP ON A MANDREL IN THE LATHE, AND WITH A RADUIS TOOL ROUND THE NUTS TO ABOUT HALF THEIR DEPTH, LEAVING HALF THE HEX FOR TIGHTING (MADE A SPECIAL SOCKET TOOL TO DO THAT, JUST FOR EASE REALLY). THEN WHEN THE WHEEL WAS ALL FITTED UP, IT WAS VERY EASY TO JUST FINISH THE RIVET NUTS WITH A DREMEL, FOR A NICE 'DOOMED' FINISH.

I WOULD DISAGREE WITH JO ON NOT USING THE EPOXY AT THE HUB END OF THE SPOKES, FOR MANY REASONS REALLY.
1, I THINK ITS BEST TO FIX A PROBLEM BEFORE IT STARTS, SO IF THE EPOXY FILLS ANY GAPS, AND STOPS THE SPOKES WORKING LOOSE, THEN TO ME THAT IS A GOOD THING.

2, YOU CAN FILL THE JOINT BETWEEN HUD AND HUB/SPOKE COVER WITH THE EPOXY, WHICH GOES A LONG WAY TO 'LOOSEING' THE JOINT LINE ON PAINTING THE WHEELS.

3, TAKING THE WHEELS APART, IF YOU NEED TO RETRO FIT THE EPOXY, IS GOING TO DESTROY ANY FINISH YOU HAVE ON THAT AREA OF THE WHEELS.

4, I JUST DON'T WON'T TO TAKE MY WHEELS APART AGAIN !!!!!!!

SORRY JO, JUST MY THOUGHTS ON THE MATTER

LILYJACK, THAT MAY HELP, OR BEWILDER YOU !!!! Laughing

REGARDS
BUNGLE

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Re: Wheel rivets..

Post  northburrell on Sun 05 Apr 2009, 1:23 pm

Thats fair enough bungle. no offence taken.. Laughing

I just cant see them ever working loose if anything the best thing for those counter sunk grubs is loctite really. were not going to be sitting on our model, so the wheels only take the weight of the engine. It's a 50 50 situation really will they wont they. anyway I can allways just take the cover off re-tighten them up with some loctite one at a time.. I dont know really I understand why they have do it but I really dont think it needs it.. my view anyway. Laughing

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Re: Wheel rivets..

Post  TonyT on Sun 05 Apr 2009, 2:12 pm

Hi Lilyjack

I had to take one of my rear wheels apart 6 hours after building it,because I built it with the inner spokes on the wrong side of the rim. Embarassed

Anyhow,it was a real pain because the loctite had done its job and nothing moved.I had to warm the wheel in the oven,you can imagine how well that one went down,but I still had to drill 3 fixings out on the hub and heli-coil them to put it all back together.

As for all the rivet bolts I lost,I was lucky to find some rivets locally which I cut to size and then cut a thread onto them,a very time consuming and boring job.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is,by all means loctite your wheels together only if you dont want to take them apart again,but why would you want to take them apart again.

Anyhow,welcome to the forum and best wishes with the build of your engine.

Tony Smile

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Re: Wheel rivets..

Post  LilyJack on Sun 05 Apr 2009, 2:30 pm

Epoxy and threadlock it is!!

Cheers for your thoughts lads. Much appreciated, knowing how to get off to a good starts half the battle especially with being a First Time Builder too.

Best regards,

LilyJack What a Face

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Re: Wheel rivets..

Post  northburrell on Wed 08 Apr 2009, 5:12 am

Hi Lilyjack.

glad your getting on with it ok..

You will find that Loctite is amazing stuff, it not only locks threads solid but it can also be used like a glue..

When you get to the tender you will get some steps to make up these are a milled out piece of brass with some mesh that glues into the milled out piece. STW say to use epoxy to glue the mesh in.. it's a very messy way of doing it and not really needed.. I just used Loctite as a glue to stick the mesh to the milled step bit.. gives a nicer finish and is ten time faster that epoxy... you'll find that as you move on there are lots of parts glued in with loctite this way.

A word of warning tho dont go mad and use loctite on everything only use it on place's that the instructions call for it.. all other nuts and bolts should be done up the usual way..

have fun and get ready for the long job of tender making if not the longest job in building the model..

Jo

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Re: Wheel rivets..

Post  LilyJack on Wed 08 Apr 2009, 8:33 am

Afternoon NorthBurrell,

Thanks for that, kind of handy being given advice from people that are way up the "build list".
Well, I've a confession to make regards the rivets on the front wheels, I made sure everything offered up nicely and everything was as should be then decided to take the plunge, used the precision epoxy as stated/advised and then took me wheels into work, got a bolt of the same size diameter to set up the T.I.G welder, found that setting to 45amps was absolutely perfect, just hovered the tip over the bolt ends and it rounded them off beautifully, a quick buffing with a polishing tip and they'll look good enough once painted. ( A job I'm not even going to bother starting until they're vulcanised ).

I do appreciate the feed-back when I ask question s on building the 2" so to everyone, thanks on that.

ROLL ON PAYDAY!!!!!!!! ( I WANT kits 2&3 NOW!! haha )

Best regards to all,

LilyJack

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Re: Wheel rivets..

Post  Steam Traction World on Wed 08 Apr 2009, 10:03 am

Hi All,

The reason Steve advices using the epoxy resin for glueing in the mesh, at the tender stage, rather than Loctite is that the expoxy as well as being used as an adhesive also helps to form a meniscus at the bottom of the mesh which improves the appearance.

He also recommends using the epoxy resin when constucting the front and rear wheels, again the reason for this is the resin is not just acting as an adhesive it is also acting as a filler to prevent any possible spoke movement that may occur. During his years building engines he has used this procedure many times, it works well and is the most common method used.

All the best

Dean

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Re: Wheel rivets..

Post  BUNGLE on Wed 08 Apr 2009, 2:44 pm

DEAN,
THATS EXACTLY ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I PUT IN MY POST ABOVE. LEAST STEVE AND I ARE THINKING ALONG THE SAME LINES, EVEN IF HE HIS ONLY IN HIS THIRTIES !! Laughing

BUNGLE

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Re: Wheel rivets..

Post  Steam Traction World on Thu 09 Apr 2009, 11:42 am

Hi Bungle,

I think there has been an error somewhere........Steve meant to put he was born in the thirties!! Very Happy Now that's cleared up back to the serious stuff.......answering the question about the 4 shilling being supplied with the castings! lol

Dean

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Re: Wheel rivets..

Post  Waterways on Thu 09 Apr 2009, 12:07 pm

Dean

Meniscus is that greek for curve had to look it up did you swallow a dictionary

Keith

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Re: Wheel rivets..

Post  LilyJack on Thu 09 Apr 2009, 12:25 pm

I was born into the age of decimal coinage so I've no idea what a "shilling" is, must be along the same lines as a "yard of ale"? I'll just have 4 pints instead thanks!! tongue

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Re: Wheel rivets..

Post  BUNGLE on Fri 10 Apr 2009, 1:18 pm

HI DEAN,

THANKS FOR CLEARING UP STEVES AGE, I WAS CONCERNED THAT HE DOES LOOKED MUCH OLDER THAN HE WAS SAYING !!!! Laughing Laughing Laughing

GUESS THATS ANOTHER BEER I'VE GOT TO BUY HIM !! Mad

BUNGLE

P.S CAN YOU STILL TO THE ENGLISH WORDS, I HAVE ENOUGH TROUBLE WITH THEM Laughing

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Re: Wheel rivets..

Post  northburrell on Wed 15 Apr 2009, 6:42 am

Steam Traction World wrote:Hi All,

The reason Steve advices using the epoxy resin for glueing in the mesh, at the tender stage, rather than Loctite is that the expoxy as well as being used as an adhesive also helps to form a meniscus at the bottom of the mesh which improves the appearance.

He also recommends using the epoxy resin when constucting the front and rear wheels, again the reason for this is the resin is not just acting as an adhesive it is also acting as a filler to prevent any possible spoke movement that may occur. During his years building engines he has used this procedure many times, it works well and is the most common method used.

All the best

Dean

Thats fair enough and i understand why it's done I guess I just dont agree with some parts of the MW's ways of doing stuff. epoxy can crack after time and goes brittle with age. it might not do the job after a year or two. I spoke to people at my model engineering society and they advised not to us it.. this is also the case for the brass captive plates in the tender.. they advised against it so i made new plate blanks and silver soldered the plates in instead, I Then drilled and tapped the holes out. my steps look good too using loctite, the paint adds a fillet at the edges of the mesh and step, no dust or dirt can get trapped.. I like to have to option to be able to strip the wheel fairly easy if i need to without fighting with epoxy everywere.

STW could go back over the old MW's tender parts and silver solder the steps and and tender plates before sending them out for new customers.. it's not hard to do either..

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