Lord Darby (4"RL)

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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  Kiwiconnection on Fri 06 May 2016, 4:46 am

After a lot of thought I have decided to modify the supplied seat frame. My lower back and bum didn’t like the pounding it was taking when negotiating some of the road finishes here in NZ. Lots of urban streets use slightly raised block paving to demark streets and sub divisions, and without springing it doesn’t take long before every joint in your body starts to complain, and sometimes the teeth in your head rattle as well.
So out came the hacksaw, with a bright new blade fitted, of I went cutting with great gusto. Firstly cutting the frame into three bits. The hanging bracket, seat frame, and diagonal support. The hanging bracket was then cleaned up using an angle grinder and four 8mm pivot holes drilled into vertical frame members. The seat frame was then shortened to suit the single seat cushion supplied. A double seat frame will be added in the future. Then finally the diagonal frame was broken down to salvage the tow bars, and use the remainder of the frame members to create the new seat frame to castor interface.





I found some 1/8” flat plate to mount the castor on, then cut up some 25x6mm flat bar for the parallel motion and finally some 25x3mm equal angle to finish of the seat frame. The only waste from the original frame was 6 offcuts of 25mm SHS. The 25mm SHS was then cut into four pieces to form the moving seat frame and was welded to the 3mm plate and modified seat frame to create a cube type frame assembly.





The castor was then bolted to the plate and the padded seat fitted to the frame using the original supplied brackets. This gives me a little fore and aft adjustment if required. Four corresponding 8mm holes were drilled into the moving frame for the parallel motion bars to be fitted.




I also made up a couple off spacers that fit over the location pins to prevent the hanging frame lifting within the tow bar frame on the tender. The castor tyre is pneumatic so the pressure can be adjusted to give a more comfortable ride on the hard road.
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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  showman shane on Fri 06 May 2016, 7:46 am

Hi Phil, Very ingenious and a real credit to your design skills. I don't see the no. eight wire though. Looking forward to our "pub to club " run Queens birthday weekend at Waihi Beach. Cheers Shane.

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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  lynnr on Fri 06 May 2016, 8:23 am

Good design there. It will also reduce the bending on the tender.
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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  Jim the Shovel on Fri 06 May 2016, 5:55 pm

That's similar to what I have in mind. I've never really liked the idea of hanging onto the back of the tender / bunker. The jockey wheel obviously relieves a great deal of the load.
I just happen to have a solo sprung Harley seat which I will be using. It's what we used to use on rigid framed bikes. Just for a little bit more of added comfort.
Thanks for the pics. They've certainly helped me to getting the cog wheels turning.

Jim
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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  LiveSteam on Fri 06 May 2016, 6:58 pm

Keep wondering about doing similar on the Agri, I dont suppose you could take a few pics of how its hooked onto the bunker and also to the towing rails at the rear please.
Although I think I can see how via the 3rd pic down.

Be interested to see how high you sit on it as well because it looking like you are now a little lower ?

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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  Kiwiconnection on Fri 06 May 2016, 10:28 pm

Hi guys, thanks for the positive responses. For Shane, a little piece of No8 wire to satisfy the Kiwi’s viewing. I will be adding a couple of permanent hooks on the top rail for the stoking tools. I will also be adding a backrest as well which also hold the registration plates.




For Livestream the seat cushion is about 600mm above the ground, which matches the supplied frame height. I think the seat is lower for the RL and Showman’s to be able to work around the canopies fitted, which obviously the agricultural doesn’t have.




Top hook over the bunker lip.



The frame load is taken on the lower drawbar.



Pin and spacer, (chained together to avoid loosing them in the toolbox).



Pin and spacer installed. (to prevent the frame from lifting).
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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  lynnr on Sun 08 May 2016, 8:42 pm

Something else as a mod.

I extended the bracket over the top of the tender to reach right in to the corners. This means the seat is also hanging off double thickness and the stiffness of the corner. Tested by two large gentlemen at Banchory a couple years ago to see if they could get Crystal to do a wheelie.

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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  Kiwiconnection on Sat 14 May 2016, 1:15 am

I was pottering around the workshop after a big clear up and decided that the remaining kit needed to be started so that I could throw the box away. So Lord Darby is in the process of having his raincoat fitted.





Having now fitted this item I have begun to realise just how restricting the canopy is when trying to reach the controls. So I have started to look into some modifications for ease of access. At this stage I wouldn’t dream of trying to drive in traffic with the canopy fitted because my arm reach is not long enough to be able to react to the driving conditions, so the canopy will be easily removable.







A view hatch is going to be added to be able to see the important instruments, the pressure gauge and water level glass. It doesn’t need to very big I have discovered, so a sliding hatch will be fitted. I will also raise the canopy a fraction so that my shoulders aren’t quite so restricted when reaching for the controls. Watch this space.
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Sliding hatch

Post  Steve Traill on Sat 14 May 2016, 10:04 pm

I used a piece of 2mm ally rolled to copy the curve of the roof then covered in cloth to match the rest of the roof. Works a treat, pics on another part of the forum.
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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  Kiwiconnection on Sat 14 May 2016, 10:25 pm

Steve, yes I think you guessed where I am getting my ideas from. Very Happy Embarassed
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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  Steve Traill on Sat 14 May 2016, 10:38 pm

Before you get too far in the roof build I would suggest that you make a double rafter half way down so that you can run timber down either side of the hatch to pick up the edges of the rafters in the hatch area. Cutting away the rear timber frame gives really good visibility then with no loss of integral strength. I was worried that by cutting a large section out it would make the roof floppy but it hasn't at all. Also I have good visibility of both front wheels through the hatch. I extended the steering shaft by 40mm which I believe STW will be doing anyway on the next batch. My knuckles were on the flywheel and that 40mm just makes it easier to reach. The remote regulator handle is a must have too! It'll be nice to see it when it's finished.
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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  Kiwiconnection on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 12:05 am

Well, after spending just over 2 years in the workshop it’s now time to show Lord Darby to the world and have had a couple of outings.



From these outings one thing that has become very apparent is, CHECK ALL FASTENINGS for tightness. Shocked  Shocked  I have had a number of steaming’s up and down the road I live on during testing and adjustments prior to getting the boiler approved. Everything appeared to be in order visually during this time. The odd fixing that I did try seemed to remain tight so I didn’t worry too much about any of the others at that stage.
Mistake.
On the second day of a weekend road run the second shaft drive failed at the gear cluster hub. Seven of the ten bolts had worked loose or had fallen out, and the final three remaining had sheared off. Obviously my fault as apparently I hadn’t used Loctite on the final assembly, as I could remove the broken thread ends just with finger pressure.
After fixing the problem with some nice new high tensile hex cap screws with spring washers and Loctite I don’t think they are likely to fall out again, I hope. I also added a couple of 5mm dowel pins to absorb the shear load of the drive, taking some of the load from the bold threads.
The steering also became tight in one direction of turning the handle, this was tracked down to the worm locknut loosening and the worm wheel retaining bolt almost working totally loose. Again lack of Loctite or other method of locking the fixings. At this stage I also added two 1.5mm bronze thrust washers each side of the steering rod support casting and a 6mm grease nipple. This has improved the action of the steering considerably.



The second outing on one of our club training days the water pump seemed to be struggling. After a couple of static runs everything seemed to be working OK pumping at boiler pressure, so of I trundled into the park. Closing the water pump bypass the first thing that seemed to happen was a change in the sound coming from the pump, and water escaping from around the suction pipe flange. Then without warning a couple of pieces of shrapnel shot past my right ear, and the pump drive stopped rotating. Bugger. All this happened within a couple of seconds.



The nylon gear had sheared a number of teeth as it is designed to do, but not before bending the drive shaft at the eccentric end. Cutting a long story short, the reason for the failure was hydraulic lock caused by the pump delivery ball lift restricting stop screw coming loose and trapping the ball onto its seat. Again a lack of glue on the thread allowing it to work loose. A spring washer and Loctite should cure that one with a bit of luck!
So the moral of the story is take plenty of time retaining all your fasteners on the final assembly, and keep checking for loose or missing fixings when your model is still fresh and new from the workshop. It’s amazing the pounding the engine gets on the road and other hard surfaces, and when being transported from one venue to the other.
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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  lynnr on Tue 06 Sep 2016, 10:35 am

Hi

Nice post of the trials and tribulations of running in these masterpieces.

Crystal still does a random selection of "lets loosen XX YY". The latest one was the left roof support from the block. Both bolts has removed themselves and wandered off someplace in Inverness after being in place for almost 4 years.
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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  Kiwiconnection on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 10:06 pm

As you can see Photobucket has stuffed my photographs shared on the forum. Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad I have kicked the buggers into touch and will look at another vendor as soon as i can. Shocked Shocked
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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  Lynn@STW on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 7:53 am

Kia ora Kiwiconnection

Hope all is well down south. Yes photobucket has ticked off a very large quantity of people. I have been using www imgur com (just add the dots) for a while for gaming pictures and appears reliable.

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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  Kiwiconnection on Mon 13 Nov 2017, 10:38 pm

Well, after reading Tim Watson’s take on using a new type of grate to replace the current fire bars, got me thinking along the same lines.
Having experienced a number of problems with the small physical size of coal here in NZ, which is favoured by the modelling fraternity, I decided that it would be a good idea to give this grate a try.

We initially used the char that the club supplied, until it became as rare as hens teeth. We then progressed to the Welsh anthracite in bean format. Both these fuels burn OK but are very prone to being shaken through the fire bars, particularly on very rough roads. I actually lost the whole fire through the bars on a particularly rough piece of road in Waihi Beach about a year ago. Also the ash pan tends to fill after only a couple of hours steaming, requiring it to be raked out on a regular basis, not very convenient to say the least. Even after selecting a larger size coal the problem remained.

I had contemplated fitting some extra fire bars by re-jigging the supports in the firebox to reduce the gap. I had been oversupplied with bars in the kit, I then realised I would need to machine all the bars to introduce a taper to prevent ash from building up in the gap. The idea of machining the fire bars put the project on the back burner, no pun intended.

Then low and behold another fellow 4” steamer Tim Watson in the UK, thinking along the same lines came up with a very neat idea that re-sparked my interest in solving the problem. He knocked up a simple “Rosebud” grate.

A fellow club member Shane Marshall, (Starlight Express), had a large piece of ˝” steel plate, enough for two grates, which he donated on the understanding that a new grate would be heading his way as well.

Two plates 315mm x 180mm x 13mm where cut. A good loose fit in the firebox without too much gap around the edge. The plate is laid loose on the existing fire bar supports at this stage. Having a mill/drill with DRO then made life very easy machining the holes. Although there are 558 in each plate, dia 5mm on a rectangular pitch of 10mm. That was the easy part.


Next was the tapered holes. I managed to find a good quality taper drill with a 20 degree included angle at my local power tool store. Although this type of drill is basically used for thin section material it coped very well with the ˝” plate. It required some patience and time for each hole as the deeper the drill went the more time was required to clear the swarf to prevent the drill binding, as it is straight fluted It also required a very slow speed, 95rpm, and plenty of cutting oil. Not cooling suds.

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After approximately 9 hours drilling 558 5mm holes, (through both plates), then about 35 hours drilling 1116 taper holes 12.7mm deep the project was finished. I don’t think it would be possible to achieve the taper holes using a drill press because of the torque required to reach the depth of hole.

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Proof of the pudding……. Initial firing from wood to coal and lifting the needle of the stop was achieved in less than 30 minutes. Then things seemed to slow down as pressure seemed very reluctant to rise above 50psi. Then after filling the fire to just below the firehole door everything accelerated rapidly. It seems a deep fire works best. After 6 hours of steaming around our club park, on mainly grass with no appreciable load on the engine, fuel consumption halved and water dropped by a third. So all the tedious time spent on the mill, so far has already payed dividends. Tending the fire is now much more relaxed. Even starting the engine with low pressure, (60psi), it soon rose to a more efficient 160psi plus in next to no time after moving off. Longer road trips are planned as Christmas approaches, (summer time here in NZ), so looking forward to a more relaxed time on the road even if it is bumpy.
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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  Steve Traill on Wed 15 Nov 2017, 3:47 pm

Also if you have a hole in your fire it tells you! You get a sort of moaning/wailing noise coming from the fire through the holes, either more coal or a good rake over cures it. The only downside with it is driving into the wind for any length of time, There's more ash going up the chimney (it has to go somewhere) so it get's in your face. Other than that it's very efficient at what it does.
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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  Tim Watson on Wed 15 Nov 2017, 6:54 pm

Interesting observations Phil. I am beginning to find that getting the fire started needs a bit of help. It does ‘hang’ at around 50 psi. I think that the gases are not igniting easily enough, so I find that a fire lighter chucked on top livens it a bit.

It may sag. Haven’t checked Frederick’s since our last road run, but if that looks like an issue then I will put another support across the middle. I used a step drill before the cone drill to make it easier on the pillar drill.

Tim
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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  Kiwiconnection on Wed 15 Nov 2017, 9:02 pm

Tim, thanks for the feedback. I did find that leaving the fire hole door open by a third made an enormous difference. One could see the gasses ignite above the coals, giving off a great deal of heat. Once I had sussed the deep fire and left the doors slightly open, pressure rose rapidly. As for any sag, l have not yet investigated the remains of the fire. I will post any findings soon.
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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  Mark the spark on Wed 15 Nov 2017, 10:51 pm

Its full size practice on locos to leave the doors open a bit after stocking the fire
black smoke is made when there is not enough air to burn it so when you open the door a bit extra air is let in above the fire and this helps burn the extra gas and produce more heat

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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  LiveSteam on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 7:16 pm

Mark the spark wrote:Its full size practice on locos to leave the doors open a bit after stocking the fire
black smoke is made when there is not enough air to burn it so when you open the door a bit extra air is let in above the fire and this helps burn the extra gas and produce more heat

This would seem reasonable, the now smaller air flow going through the grate requires much more top air to keep it going. I'm really keen to give one of these grates a go and hope to create one over winter.

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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  Mark the spark on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 7:22 pm

There is a very good book that british rail published in the 1950s called the enginemans hand book and it describes the correct operation and fireing of steam locos and the fire door is classed as the secondary air supply and to be used to control smoke and this in turn helps the fire burn hotter

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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  He Who Must Not Be Blamed on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 10:54 am

Mark the spark wrote:There is a very good book that british rail published in the 1950s called the enginemans hand book

I think you mean the 'Handbook for Railway Steam Locomotive Enginemen'. A quality Pdf scan of the 1957 edition is floating about on the interwebs. The good stuff ('Principles of good firing') starts on page 26. I believe I downloaded my copy using eMule.

Edit: also available here.

Eric
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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  Mark the spark on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 12:25 pm

That's the one my copy is flooting about somewhere
Well worth a read

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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

Post  Tim Watson on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 8:50 am

Mark the spark wrote:There is a very good book that british rail published in the 1950s called the enginemans hand book and it describes the correct operation and fireing of steam locos and the fire door is classed as the secondary air supply and to be used to control smoke and this in turn helps the fire burn hotter

My comments related to getting the fire going: if the doors are open at this stage the back head will be completely sooted up. A little bit of top air is not a bad thing - on the rosebud grate that will stop the moaning noise of there is a hole in the fire - you can play a tune with the doors. However, in comparison with railway engines, our fire boxes do not have a brick arch and so working with the doors open will allow cold air directly onto the tubes: this can be deleterious. Having said that, mine are nearly always slightly ajar.

Tim
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Re: Lord Darby (4"RL)

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