Traction Talk

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Traction Talk

Post  Steam Traction World on Fri 01 Mar 2013, 12:22 pm

Have you seen the recent thread on Traction Talk called "whats wrong with kit built engines?"

Theres just been a post made by Mr Fettler, I quote

"What is wrong with kit built engines?"

They are boring - all coming from the same mould so to speak.

A good way into the hobby that anyone can complete BUT each one is a clone and lack character IMHO
__________________
Make Steam Not War

Come on all you kit builders, you're not going to stand for that are you?

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Steve

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Re: Traction Talk

Post  ejparrott on Fri 01 Mar 2013, 1:08 pm

Well, he's entitled to his own opinion, but I don't think I've seen two identical paint schemes here yet.....never mind all the little touches that have been added, like wooden running boards to driving seats and the like....

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Re: Traction Talk

Post  highpressure on Fri 01 Mar 2013, 3:40 pm

I am not registered on TT and with idiots like that on there I can see why Evil or Very Mad . I am fed up defending Steam Traction World's excellent components and service, my engine, skills, pedigree etc. As I mentioned on here a few weeks ago someone at my local ME referred to me as a "cheque book modeller" to which I was incensed, perhaps with the last engine which I bought completed due to lack of patience but certainly not this one.

With regard to all coming from the same mould, don't most of the "home grown" engines come from the same castings available from the same suppliers??? To be fair most punters at rallies just see "another agricultural engine" and only the rivet counters really know the difference between all the showmans in the line up at places like Dorset, even I dont know the difference between single drive etc and dont even know the correct terminology for most of them Embarassed

Half the tossers I come across at rallies and the clubs dont steam up just enjoy explaining how they made a bolt from some ore after refining, casting, turning and generally torturing it. Most of these types arent going to change their mind regardless of starting a fight online as they are generally scathing of our "poor second rate attempts at engineering" as they dont believe we have any skills otherwise we would be making our own components. Cant be arsed anymore...... Rolling Eyes just looking forward to the new season and enjoying steaming.. cheers

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Re: Traction Talk

Post  Flasback on Fri 01 Mar 2013, 4:44 pm

Read the thread on TT and thought it was a good thread, only one comment not praising kits. Kev, you can view the thread and it is very interesting to read peoples views on the topic.


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Re: Traction Talk

Post  highpressure on Fri 01 Mar 2013, 5:47 pm

Well if it's meant to rub me up the wrong way then it worked!!! I might have a look at it when I get a moment.

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Re: Traction Talk

Post  Tony King on Fri 01 Mar 2013, 6:14 pm

I haven't read the tread on TT, but if he thinks kits are boring, then he hasn't biult one from STW & perhaps shouldn't make such a sweeping statement about them being from the same mould......... It's a pile of machined components same as any other build, it's the way they are put together & finished which makes an "individual" or "boring" job.
Not everyone who has an interest in "steam world" has the time or the machines or the money to to do it any other way & I think some of the engines from the STW stable are far better than some I've seen from "other sorces".
It seems to be an elitest view to critisize something that is'nt carved from solid in ones own workshop, very narrow minded I'd say, but then what do I know, I'm only building my second engine from STW, having spent thirty years building one from scratch in my spare time & although it all works, it still ain't finished!!!
Regards,
Tony

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Re: Traction Talk

Post  lynnr on Fri 01 Mar 2013, 6:16 pm

TT well those initials can mean another thing all together. I very very rairly post on as all you get is grief and people trying to put you down and belittle you.

But I did respond to that particular thread.

I don't do many words and the rest will stay with me.

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Re: Traction Talk

Post  busman on Fri 01 Mar 2013, 6:24 pm

Its a shame their are a lot of TT,s out there who have prob retired and have the time and premises to scratch build an engine, but I have also come across a lot more owners who have bought their engines ready built, so are we the poor souls caught in the middle? pig

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Re: Traction Talk

Post  bjwlancashire on Fri 01 Mar 2013, 6:46 pm

I have also posted my thoughts and opinions in a controlled maner in the hope of not causing offence to anyone. I should be the last one singing the praiseds of STW right now but I know and understand what has happended to my cylinder and I do not hold them responsible. I just look forward to receiving the new one soon. If I had bought a rough casting from a foundry or a known supplier of drawings and castings the same thing could have happened.

As you say, Traction Talk can be a minefield for petty mindedness and many pages are wasted on knonking this and that - just look how often the NTET comes up in a negative way and it is the same people each time.

Up to Steve to post a comment on TT if he dares Wink

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Re: Traction Talk

Post  Flasback on Fri 01 Mar 2013, 7:53 pm

Maybe its just me but the thread was not knocking kits, it was only discussing the difference between kits and scratch. The one comment now posted by Steve on this forum and people are defending what!! 99% of the thread was positive, maybe Steve should also be putting other comments on this forum to get a balanced view of that thread topic.

such as:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Fettler
"What is wrong with kit built engines?"

They are boring - all coming from the same mould so to speak.
A good way into the hobby that anyone can complete BUT each one is a clone and lack character IMHO

Disagree, don't all miniatures come from the same set of drawings therefore are a clone of that design?
It is the builders who put there own mark on kit built engines and give them their own personality like all engines no two are the same.

or

Models built individually reflect the character, finances and ability of their builders. Some have been scaled directly from full size engines( Bill Hughes spent 2 years scrambling over Royal Chester to make his drawings). Some really talented folk make patterns and even cast their own castings, some make patterns and get castings made. Some determined souls make their own gears, many do as much boilermaking as present day restrictions allow, most used to make their own boilers. Kits reflect the determination of their owners to own an engine. They spend a lot of money to buy the essential parts and put in a lot of work on assembly, fit and finish and in some cases, individual touches to the models. The owners do not have the ability to honestly say" I made all of it' or rather sadly say" It took me three tries to get this bit right!"However , they can proudly say, I bought a kit, took a lot of time bringing it to this condition and am proud of it"Kit built, individually built and bought secondhand models all can stand together, all that matters is that they are safe reasonable representations of full size engines. The child with a Mamod needs encouragement to continue in the hobby, an award winner deserves praise. Lets give everyone recognition for effort, enthuiasm and achievement.

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Re: Traction Talk

Post  Robfishman on Fri 01 Mar 2013, 8:23 pm

To be honest they can say what they like it really doesn't bother me. The fact that I have put it together from a kit of well machined and produced parts, finished, painted, and lined it out, then brough it to life (I hope) is good enough for me. There is no way I could do this without the help of STW, and I wonder sometimes if its not caused by them being jealous of the quality of what is being produced by all of us, In a fraction of the time I have heard scratch builders say they have taken.

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Re: Traction Talk

Post  Robfishman on Fri 01 Mar 2013, 8:48 pm

Ok I've now read it and its quite well balanced. Tomorrow Ill add my comments.

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Says it all really

Post  Tim Watson on Sun 03 Mar 2013, 7:43 am

The following is the last comment from the thread on TT. Actually I think the thread has been quite good for kit built engines.

"I'm in the same camp as Clinkard but feel I need to add my tuppence worth, This hobby can't just be for ageing engineers like myself, I feel the man or woman that makes a steam model, the person who doesn't know one end of a file throm the other or a g41 from a g42, they deserve more praise than those of us with an engineering background.
Its of little consequence how its made, be it old school methods (that saw the demise af many british companies dare I add), cnc or by kit, on the rally field or round the back garden its all the same, a model to be marveled at piloted by proud builder/owner wearing a grin i
If were talking entries to the various model engineering shows where models are judged then there should be diferent classes to cater for kit built, right through to engineer built models, maybe there already is, I dont know

[QUOTEbut for me this is simply not possible as I have no real engineering background][/QUOTE]

All you need is the desire to make it possible, its not as if you're trying to make a profit on every hour worked, enjoy it, ask questions everywhere you can, and look after those precious fingers !

Terry" (Skuse)


Tim



Last edited by Tim Watson on Sun 03 Mar 2013, 7:46 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Adjusting English)

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Re: Traction Talk

Post  martinj on Sun 03 Mar 2013, 8:12 am

Please Miss what's a g41 or a g42? Google doesn't offer much more than Glasgow postcodes!

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Re: Traction Talk

Post  Robfishman on Sun 03 Mar 2013, 8:23 am

They are cutter compensations, the page below gives quite a good description.

http://www.globalspec.com/reference/74560/203279/cutter-compensation-g40-g41-g42

But I didn't know either, I just got lucky on google as I assumed they must have been some sort of cutting tool.

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