RH Drive collar fixing

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RH Drive collar fixing

Post  Rickster on Sat 22 Sep 2012, 5:40 am

Has anyone had an issue fitting the collar and retaining pin ?

I am not able to put the pin through the collar and axle due to the pin's angle being pushed out of vertical by the rear wheel hub.

On the left hand side I could just turn the wheel 90 degrees to make sure the pin was vertical by not touching the lettering on the hub face.

However on the right hand side, the position of the alignment is fixed by the drive casting onto the axle by the two keys, and the rear wheel engaging by the two two pins into the hub.

Having thought a bit about this, I think there are only two options - either the axle is drilled 90 degrees out or the keys in the axle have been machined 90 degrees out.

Does anyone have any ideas? I had thought about grinding a taper on the retaining pin to allow the pin to go in at an angle initially but I'm not sure this will give enough strength to the retaining pin in the other side of the collar.
Any help gratefully received.


cheers

Rick

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Re: RH Drive collar fixing

Post  Tony King on Sat 22 Sep 2012, 5:55 am

Hi Rick,
Best thing to do is assemble your right hand side first, then push the shaft through as far as it will go, then assemble the diff side. That should allow you to get all your pins in!!
I have spaced my wheels out abit, so I actually filed a flat all the way along the diff side pin, so as to allow it to be fitted without scraping paint off the wheel hub.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Tony

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Re: RH Drive collar fixing

Post  lynnr on Sat 22 Sep 2012, 6:19 am

With the left wheel off. Tap (thump) the axial over a few mm. Then fit right wheel and tap the axial back to the left. No problem.

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Re: RH Drive collar fixing

Post  Rickster on Sat 22 Sep 2012, 7:00 am

Thanks to you both for your replies. The only problem here, I've already built up the diff and fixed the inner bevel gear with bearing grade adhesive as recommended in Kit 23 believing that it was final assembley

Would it still be "moveable" with some persuasion ?

cheers

Rick



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Re: RH Drive collar fixing

Post  Tony King on Sat 22 Sep 2012, 8:33 am

Rick, there is no such thing as final assembly with these things!! Very Happy
I must admit I didn't pick up on the fact that the diff pinion should be "fixed" to the shaft, so I haven't & I don't intend to!!..... So I can still move shaft through the back axle tube as required.
Having said that, I should think with a careful "weighty" thump it should move, if not a bit of heat will probably free it off!!
best of luck,
Tony

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Re: RH Drive collar fixing

Post  Rickster on Sat 22 Sep 2012, 11:07 am

Thank you Lynn and Tony, I managed to finally move the axle through to the right hand side as you suggested Lynn. Bit of a performance jacking one side then the other but all done now. One small cock up - I forgot to put the damper rod back on though.

I will try to leave the wheel, loosen the gear guard and hopefully there is enough clearance between the wheel and guard to get it back in. Evil or Very Mad

Gear levers and bracket are off being plated and just the replacement water pump to try out - first one sprang four leaks by the return elbow. This one doesn't look much better but I've covered that part in solver and araldited over the top of this so I hope it will be ok.

Hopefully have a bit of steam tomorrow.

cheers

Rick


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Re: RH Drive collar fixing

Post  IanL on Sat 22 Sep 2012, 11:17 am

Is this the road loco flywheel? I was expecting it would be solid
Ian

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Re: RH Drive collar fixing

Post  Rickster on Sat 22 Sep 2012, 11:23 am

Hi Ian,

No it's not standard- the road loco is traditionally a disc, but I wanted a spoked one - I think there are two of us with spokes - one in New Zealand also.

Rick

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Re: RH Drive collar fixing

Post  IanL on Sat 22 Sep 2012, 11:31 am

Hi Rick,

Many thanks for the reply being only just 12 months into the build I find it useful and encouraging to see how other builders are getting on with their builds. I like you colour scheme and the engine is looking very smart. I was thinking about final assembly but it sounds like this may never happen as it appears pulling it apart and tweaking bits seem to be a normal requirement!

Best wishes

Ian

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Re: RH Drive collar fixing

Post  Tim Watson on Tue 02 Oct 2012, 12:53 am

Rick is correct, the axle hole for the collar pin is 90 degrees out. It would be much easier to have the pin so that it inserts down the long axis of the elliptical hub. Whilst it is possible to move the left hand wheel assembly and axle to make room in the workshop, as outlined by the others, it would not be practical for taking the wheel off on the road or rally field - something I have done more than once with Madeline.

I have just got to the stage of fitting the diff and final drive and currently can't find the wheel pins and collars! Maybe an option would be to cross drill the axle or make clearance on one side of the pin to insert it, then turn it through 90 degrees and lock it into position with a grub screw. At the end of the day, this collar simply stops the wheel from moving out wards, it takes no torquing load and similarly, the axle does not require massive strength in this region.

I would not leave the engine without the ability to remove the offside back wheel independently.

Tim

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Re: RH Drive collar fixing

Post  bjwlancashire on Tue 02 Oct 2012, 1:35 am

Tim

I would have thought that there is a resonable side load on the collar as it is stopping the diff separating if you are turning tight corners. However, I did manage to fit the pins without interference with the wheel hub but could not say if the hole was 90 degrees out or anything, I did not notice.

I have also had some fun getting both collars on too but only because it would not go far enough on to align the holes as iff the wheels were to fatr apart. The only addition was two spacers inside the Dif to space the inner bevel from the Dif centre to stop the gears climbing as they do seem to be cut slightly wrong and would run lumpy. There is a 1mm and a 1.5mm spacer in there. I do feel the dif gear or pinion teeth are not machined right as they only truly mesh if you slide them about a third of the way off the bevel gear otherwise they seem to climb up and down over the gear teeth when you roll them together like the teeth spacing/depth is not correct.

I have had to remove one of the two brass spacers between the outer bevel and the Dif centre to get the wheel collars both on. My only problem now is that the outer bevel is tight on the pinions and causing it to be lumpy and lock up at certain points when rotating the wheel by hand while it is off the ground and it did lock up while doing a tight turn in the garage at our new house last night (finally got Blackbeard moved) so I ended up pulling the drive pins out to make manouving easy. I will probably need to remove a 1mm spacer from the inner bevel/dif centre area to allow a small amount of float within the dif but I will still not be able to get the second brass spacer between the outer bevel/dif centre. Not sure if it the second one is needed though so any comment from Steve would be appreciated.

Cheers

Brian

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Re: RH Drive collar fixing

Post  Tim Watson on Sat 06 Oct 2012, 12:18 am

Brian
I have now fitted the RH collar without too much problem. The pin would scarcely clear the cast lettering on the hub, so I ground off a flat surfaceprpearation the pin to give clearance and gave it a slight lead at the ends. The axle does not need moving to and fro to fit the pin/collar. The pin still retains the collar in the correct position without any problem as there is sufficient pin circumference in the collar hole.

The other end now protrudes by about 221mm - so a little bit short. I now need to move the engine a few feet back in my very crowded workshop to fit the diff, which I will keep as narrow as possible.

Tim

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Re: RH Drive collar fixing

Post  bjwlancashire on Mon 08 Oct 2012, 4:25 am

Tim

I took the 1mm spacer from the hornplate side of the Dif, the ones that came with the diff kit. It made no difference whatsoever. I am suspecting the diff bevel gear teeth or the pinion teeth are wrong. The axle length is fixed, the collar pin hole positions are fixed, the axle bearing tube casting lenth, the wheel hub thicknesses, the drive collar, everything. The only concern I had during asembly was the diff gear teeth fit.

If it is not faulty gear teeth depth then I can only think of taking a small amount off each drive collar, maybe between 0.5mm and 1mm per side in order to get the second spacer back in between the wheel sidde bevel and the diff centre.

Over to Steve, I need to give him a call.

Brian

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Re: RH Drive collar fixing

Post  Tony King on Mon 08 Oct 2012, 5:24 am

I put both my rear wheel locating rings on the lathe & machined a bit off, so as to space the wheels out as much as possible to get the brake blocks running as close to the edge of the wheels as possible............ Originally the "riv-nuts" where catching the brake blocks. I have used every spacer/shim that was supplied on the axle & I have 1mm clearance, which I hope will be OK? This is why I had to file a flat on right hand side locating pin to get it in without taking off paint!!
Regards,
Tony

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Re: RH Drive collar fixing

Post  bjwlancashire on Mon 08 Oct 2012, 5:40 am

Tony

I have planed the wood to be flush to the brackets on mine too, the LH wheel one was touching the rivets. RH one was just about touching too. This is why I feel I have a different problem. No shims used on RH wheel side, 1.5mm shim on dif between hornplate side bevel and dif centre. Only one of the two brass spacers required is currently being used between the outside of dif and the wheel side bevel so that I had a chance of getting the collar on and it is snug, no play at all.

Brian

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Re: RH Drive collar fixing

Post  Flasback on Thu 11 Oct 2012, 11:20 am

One thing to look at is the RH drive casting part number BS42350, this stops the engine moving on the shaft. The drive casting face on the wheel interface has a lip of about 5mm. I machined this off and this then allows the wheel lugs to fit tight against the drive cast and gives the wheel an extra 5mm of travel along the shaft. This then allowed me to lock down the RH wheel. I did not like the lip as this allowed the wheel lugs to stick out and gave a gap between the drive casting and wheel (a water holder if I ever saw one). I spoke to Steve beforehand and he stated that the machined lip was on the drive casting because it was on ex-mayor and it served no function. I have looked at a few engines and the drive casting in all instances butts up to the wheel, looks a lot better too.

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Re: RH Drive collar fixing

Post  Tim Watson on Thu 11 Oct 2012, 11:31 am

I also noted that lip on the casting. It's function could be to allow placing a wedge / hefty screwdriver between the wheel and the casting if you wanted to remove the wheel. I think that if you get rid of the lip I would be inclined to cut a couple of grooves near the edge of the casting to take a scredriver blade. Rusting between the wheel and casting is going to be unlikely in that position, with the amount of oil that will drip off the gears.

Tim

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Re: RH Drive collar fixing

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