Steaming again!!

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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  lynnr on Wed 25 Jul 2012, 3:07 pm

Hi all.

Been in steam. Got a not too long a list of hissing bits. Injector also picked up at 50 as well. Very Happy

Had the same problem with water up front. Due to blower being run at too low a pressure and appeared to be due to very very wet steam and a cold front end. Sucked up the water with a turkey baester and cleaned the tubes. Then she went for it. All clear, good fire, front end nice and dry. Blower on after venting lp and heating the block up. Got a quick spirt of water but dried up very quickly.

Due to the wind changing direction did not manage to get above 65psi before starting to calm her down for bed. She was in steam from 1710 until 2215. She lives!

Night night all.


Last edited by lynnr on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 10:30 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  highpressure on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 8:23 am

Well having had one of those eureka moments a few nights ago when I lay in bed considering my previous comment about how difficult it was to turn the engine under steam but not cold and whether the starting valve would contribute to that, I realised it might well do. It will fill the LP chest with high pressure steam which will also cross via the transfer port to the HP side. It will enter the exhaust cycle of the HP valve and push against the steam trying to come in from the regulator. So I decided to block off the port at the LP cylinder and HEY PRESTO cheers a different engine!! Nothing like the previous steamings, really easy to start, virtually no condensate from the LP drains, no water in the exhaust and a very different exhaust note, much less use of steam and a real joy to run this time. Ran for about 2 hours until a funny ticking noise caught my attention along with a couple of other bits. Couldn't really get it to run in reverse, very angry and unco-operative, really difficult to put into reverse where fighting with the reversing lever seemed to cause the gauge glass to break affraid affraid Not had that before on other engines but something interesting to deal with!! Shut both cocks off and tried to replace it in steam but the fittings had moved due to the heat etc and things looseing off and promptly broke a second glass " Just like that "( Tommy Cooper accent here please ). So dropped the fire.

Don't know what to do about this valve, I have tried to seal this four times now and it doesn't seem any better this time than it was the very first time. I might just leave it blocked because I don't have any issue moving off by turning the flywheel and I'm fed up constantly taking this thing on and off to find I have made no difference to it at all, and need to be in steam each time to test it. Firing up at home tries the patience of the neighbours so don't want to keep lighting up just to check it. I'm going to change the bolts to sockets heads any way as they are so difficult to get to to do up tight.

Found out the troublesome gears were due to either movement or expansion in the valve chambers causing the valve rod to hit the end of the steam chest ( Thats the ticking noise then ) They were close when it was put together so I reset it all and it turns over again now. This was in the LP valve chest and it seems to resemble sand with resin in from the cores probably.



More disturbing is this which has occured in the last few months, it wasn't like it when it was painted and has got worse in the last few steamings, anyone got any ideas??? I don't think it poses a threat to the integrity of the LP cylinder as its very thick here and the thread for the starting valve is nice and deep, I was thinking of putting JB Weld in it as it is making it difficult to get a good seat on the valve base. I am certainly NOT going to change the cylinder!!! Evil or Very Mad



Otherwise a very pleasing result, the replaced globes sorted out the leaking injector and gauge feed and the new pump does pump although again there are a few pin holes in the casting and both feed and return pipes don't have enough solder in the unions and have had to be done again by Grandad. Perhaps they were done a bit too quick??

Steve, you might want to look at the quality of the casting for the pump bodies, that's two I have had with pin holes in although this one isn't as bad as the last one and if it gets bad I will silver solder it myself to save having to send it back.

This is the latest video of it running which if you compare to the previous one is very different.


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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  lynnr on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 10:10 am

Looking really good. Well done.

I also got a few lumps of "char" out of the LP side.

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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  Rickster on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 2:14 pm

Steamed again this morning and seemed to have gone backwards after the repairs from last time.

The water pump pipe was no problem after being silver soldered, one off the list. The oil pump worked fine I think.

It doesn't seem to pressurise much at tickover is this normal can anyone say ? Does the oil pipe need to be bled of air at the non return valve to work properly? The soot in the chimney gave a better indication of oil being used. In all over a two hour period the oil box was down by about a quarter, does anyone know if this good, bad or normal ?

The water pump drive eccentric picked up and seized the engine solid. The water pump body, exactly the same as Highpressure started with a pin hole in the same place and the pick up pipe from the tender suffered from poor soldering at both ends.

At this point I shut the engine down and made repairs.

Steamed again at 6.30 this evening and as she was still warm it only took 45mins to get to tick over.
Put the pump on and the pin hole became two then a big split appeared, about 4mm long and water just pissed out . Steve, I need a new water pump casting. i couldn't believe it, holes were appearing before my eyes just above the return valve as Highpressure.

The globe valve for the injector refuses to close without the use of a spanner so I need a replacement one of these also.

The starting valve is odd I have to say. After modifying the slow start valve, I was hoping for better things but the regulator was making no difference at all to the engine speed. The only thing that does is pushing the starting valve. With the valve fully back, the engine would not run even at 80 psi. It will on run with a wiff of starting valve. Then when it stops, the pressure builds up really quickly and makes it almost impossible to start even with judicious use of the reverser.

Kev, how did you blank off the starting valve ? I think I will give it a try and see what happens. Does your regulator work properly ?

cheers

Rick









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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  highpressure on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 2:33 pm

Hi Rick,

It sounds like you have the same issues with me as to the starting valve, if you haven't read above it covers how it causes the crank to be really hard to turn, the higher the pressure gets the worse it becomes. To blank it off I used a thin sheet of aluminium, cut it the same shape as the input to the LP cylinder and then put a sheet of gasket paper either side. I bought some to make gaskets for the cylinder cover and valve chests and its been handy with the water pump etc.

The oiler bearly puts anything out the end but it's enough to keep the cylinders good. When I took the chests off today it was clear they both had oil in the steam. I used about a 1/4 to 1/3 of a tank in the two hours and was running constantly.

Throttle works fine with the starting valve covered, but without a flywheel it wont run too slowly due to lack of inertia and with me the problem of the valve rods causing it to bind.

I would say that the pump casting might have an issue as I have had two bodies both with leaks, you have a problem and I believe Lynn has had a pin hole as well, but I'm sure Steve will be on it. The pipes unions didnt look like they had a lot of solder on them but that was an easy fix.

These are typical of the early days and this time next year will be a distant memory, certainly gets you up to speed with multi tasking, I was quite inpressed I took both valve chests apart whilst in steam and during the HP side the safety valve lifted so that was quite a surprise as it was at 120 when I last looked and the steam port from the regulator didnt let anything by whilst I was in there.

Keep the faith though, it's frustrating now but will get better as it all beds in. Smile

Cheers Kev.

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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  Rickster on Sat 28 Jul 2012, 2:54 pm

Hi Kev,

Thanks for the reality check. Seems the only real problem, same as you, is the starting valve. I'll give the blanking plate idea a whirl and see if my regulator does work.

I was really amazed to see these pin holes appear as I was pumping water in. Then to see the big split and water from 4 different leaks, all in the same area stopped me from bothering to try to use it.

Does the clack valve on the boiler turn cold when water is pumped in? The pipe is cold but the clack stays hot. If it wasn't going in though I would have thought that something would have broken by now.

Must admit I was a bit fed up after this morning session but this evening was better and there are far fewer steam leaks now and only a few dribbles of water from fittings before getting up to 50 psi plus. Overall I'm happy with progress, but didn't realise how much you have to be on the ball with these engines to make sure you have fire/water/steam when you want it. I guess it will be easier over time, but it is a steap learning curve.

I did manage to run the gear cluster today. albeit in 1st gear and driving the diff on the other side, which was nice.


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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  Tim Watson on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 12:39 am

I wonder if there is enough lift on the ball for the pump clack? Perhaps the pump is over pressurising.
Kev's gauge glass breaking, changes in valve timings and difficulty in getting reverse certainly indicates a loosening of the hornplates. It is amazing how the heat tightens up the paint and loosens the bolts. Also check the tightness of the perch bracket at the front end.

Tim

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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  highpressure on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 1:18 am

Hi Tim,

Yes that thought went through my mind too but I would have thought the crank alignment might have altered too and I can still turn that easily by hand. I had to realign the water gauge fittings by two complete turns of the lower fitting before the alignment tool was anywhere close, the top fittings lock nut was loose. I didnt actually check the hornplate bolts at that point, I know it doesnt need to be much but the HP valve rod seemed much longer than when I first set it up. Not sure what all this indicates Question Question

I am however winning the "Gauge glass destruction" Challenge. I have currently broken 5 so far What a Face What a Face Is it sold by the meter?? Laughing Laughing

Kev.

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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  lynnr on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 9:10 am

My water pump leaks without turning.

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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  highpressure on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 10:35 am

Not sure I understand that sentance Shocked How can it leak without turning or pressure? If thats the case then trust me when its trying to force water in against 150 psi it will really let go What a Face

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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  lynnr on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 10:58 am

It pressurises from the boiler by back feeding from the boiler. As the post earlier said. Is the pump over pressurising due to restriction at the one way valve. Mine is leaking without running. Ie crank stationary.

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Breaking glass

Post  Steve Traill on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 12:03 pm

When setting up the gauge glass one has to remember that glass has a zero tolerance to stress/bending. I set the top & bottom up with a piece of alluminium bar which is a nice sliding fit. When putting it through the top part on reaching the bottom part there is a certain amount of wiggle room. Check that it wiggles centrally in both planes. Then tighten everything up & check again. Then try the glass & it should slide easily in the brass fittings. I only do the nuts up hand tight with the silicone seal. If the hornplates are even slightly loose then the glass will break due to the design. (Charlie Burrels fault not Steve's) With the SC Burrell I removed each hornplate bolt in turn, removed all the paint around the hole, degreased the hole & the bolt & refitted with a generous collar of JB weld, then left it 48hrs to harden. Nothing has moved since.


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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  highpressure on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 12:50 pm

Ahhh That leak is caused by the ball not seating correctly, as Steve said to me you must get this working as a check valve for this reason and obviously the various tests that need to be performed "in the name of safety". The water is quite cruddy with boiler treatment in and this will stick to the ball and seat and cause this to happen. On the other engine I actually changed the SS ball for a Viton rubber one which then always sealed, I believe there is an opinion that the boiler heat will cause the rubber to disintegrate but speaking from my experience with this it solved the problem and the ball held up, so you make your own opinion from there.

I have the same problem, a constant gurgle of steam coming back through the pump but these leaks we are talking about here are at the left hand elbow on the top of the pump as it goes into the flange for the feed pipe, above the bypass. Although the metal looks solid enough both myself (twice ) and Rick have had water just appear through the metal and weep out of the back.

With regards to the glass, I thought I had set the fittings up with the supplied alignment tool with the top fittings in place to hold the rod as ture as poss and then just gently pushing it down till it gets to the lower one, but with two of the glasses they just seemed to touch the very edge inside the top fitting and then when tightening up it just cracks the top which them makes it a very close thing as to whether it will hold long term. Once that happens its out and start again and you only get one chance each time. I have found it quite difficult to stop it leaking without having to tighten it up with a spanner which doesnt seem right??

Checked all the hornplates and they were all tight so no further forward there other than heat up and try again.

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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  Rickster on Sun 29 Jul 2012, 1:40 pm

Hi Kev,

Just remembered something! I had a problem lining up the gauge glass and spoke to Steve who made a longer fitting for the bottom one into the boiler. I only had about 2mm thread on the original part holding into the boiler when the gauge glass lined up. It would be worth speaking to Steve on this one.

Cheers

Rick




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Pump body- Check it!

Post  Tony King on Wed 01 Aug 2012, 12:12 am

Hi All,
Please have a quick look at my photo thread, re:- pump body, as I found a blocked output passage in the casting! Probably a one off, but worth checking!!
Regards,
Tony

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Running under its own steam!!!

Post  highpressure on Sun 19 Aug 2012, 12:19 pm

This should be the link to me grinning like an idiot as His Majesty finally moves off under its own power for the very first time at the Festival of Steam at the Weald and Downalnd open air museum.


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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  IanL on Sun 19 Aug 2012, 1:07 pm

Wow that is fantastic looks great .

No wonder you have such a huge grin on your face.

Well done
Ian

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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  craig@STW on Mon 20 Aug 2012, 9:12 am

good stuff. great to see Cool

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What a day!!! Crap start, good finish!!!

Post  highpressure on Sat 15 Sep 2012, 10:10 am

Well now,today is one of the most anticipated for me as it is one of my favourite rallies at the Amberley Heritage centre which is all tarmac and has lots to see and do so the kids and wife dont mind coming, and the forecast was perfect, cold crisp start sunshine all day!!! sunny

So having rebuilt the engine all wentr well at light up and soon had the blower helping to get steam. As its quite well run in now it can turn from about 15 psi up so into gear and open the regulator..... fighting like a b*stard to turn over, weighshaft flapping up and down all sorts of movements and a very odd exhaust note. Heart sank, brain froze Question what the hell is wrong?

Thought the block for the HP start may have ruptured resulting in HP steam in the LP side having seen something like this before so nothing for it but off with the LP valve chest. Now dont ask me how but for some reason the LP valve has changed timing by about 3mm, virtually no opening at the back and way past the port at the front, so readjusted it and then reassmbled, all seemed fine drove as before, so set off down the small hill to the main road to meet up with The Coleman. Went to the tap to fill the tender and then return to camp. This was where to fun starts, this bit is slightly up hill and as soon as the engine had to make effort it starts knocking away and labouring really hard. Finally get back to Andy to decide I need to check the HP timing but not in full view of the public so need ot go back up the hill to a quiet spot. As its quite a hill the engine realll struggles and in the end stops half way up. At this point I decide Ihave no option but to open up the HP valve and reset it here to stand any chance of getting anywhere.

This side too is also out by the same amount which at least explains the poor performance and at this point I feel that I have corrected the problems. So into gear to pull away with about 160 on the clock and cablooey What a Face What a Face the gauge glass goes affraid Steam fills the manstand at least at 150deg C and I cant see anything to try and shut the cocks. Finally get the cocks shut and have burnt my hand. Fortunately a previous MW customer who is also a bit of a steam buff and boiler tester was there to assist in replacing the glass under steam. As per go back to the car park it is obvious that the hornplates are both well loose which has been the cause of the break and probably the loss of timing during last weeks road run when the engine started to labour badly.

Tighten it all up and recheck the timing and then give it a try, it runs like a dream, loads of power, smooth as you like. It is now 11.30!!!! Jeeze what a start!!! The rest of the day till 4.30 it performs beautifully with both me and Andy on the back and kids in the triailer, all three gears perform well, even gets up the hill in third with a real exhaust bark.

Despite having had an engine before for more than 5 years I feel I have learnt more today than ever before, certainly about how it sounds when things arent good and what to do to check.

Advice to all others, check and recheck regularly the tightness of all the fittings during these early stages, I for one will take out each bolt on the hornplates and use JB weld to reseat them.

Hopefully tomorrow will be less exciting but much more enjoyable!!!! cheers Certainly is an absolute joy to drive.

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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  Robfishman on Sat 15 Sep 2012, 11:34 am

Bl**dy hell Kev sound like you have had a nightmare this morning. Glad to hear its up and running again though and hope your not to badly burned.

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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  highpressure on Sat 15 Sep 2012, 11:49 pm

After the poor start yesterday things improved rapidly. This was the set up with the organs and The Colemans engine, the paint on his puts mine to shame so I wont be parking there today!!!!












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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  highpressure on Sun 16 Sep 2012, 12:40 pm

Good day today, lit up at 9.00 in steam and moving by 10.30, ran well all day. Seems to be quite controllable with deft use of the regulator, the slow speed is good but I have placed an M3 nut in the top part of the regulator section to enable the bottom part to open sooner on Steves advice as there just isnt enough of an opening with the original design. I am given to understand there is redesign for this but I might be wrong.

During the afternoon there were few issues with various bits working loose, two of the eccentrics have undone on the crank but couldnt be sorted in steam as quite few bits need to come off. I will sort during the week and loctite them in. I suspect also the bolt holding the small pinion gear under the left hand guard has also undone as a rubbing noise has started, again I will reassemble with loctite.

As someone else said, you spend the first few months picking up the bits behind you, so all others who are reaching steaming keep checking and rechecking stuff for tightness.

Ran out of puff at about 4.00 and packed up so looking forward to next week.

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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  Kevster on Sun 16 Sep 2012, 1:02 pm

Hi all,

just been bolting up my hornplates and was considering what to do with the large clearance holes.
Is a bit of jb weld the way to go or make some special washers maybe to lock in place or maybe a combination of both?

What is everyone else doing?

Thanks

Kev

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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  highpressure on Sun 16 Sep 2012, 1:53 pm

Apparantly JB weld does an adequate job, take each one out in turn, clean and add JB weld to hole and then refit. Can withstand quite a heat and has the bolt head to keep things in place also. I intend to do this to stop them working loose again.

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Re: Steaming again!!

Post  highpressure on Thu 20 Sep 2012, 9:13 am

Had a bit of a test day yesterday as a couple of things had worked loose on Sunday and I had fixed them and wanted to check things out. Discovered where the slack was in the reverser and sorted that, I get the feeling that the poor session a few weeks ago caused a bit of damage to the weighshaft link rod but I have managed to get it out with shims. A couple of the eccentrics had worked loose which needed tightening but thst didnt take much of an effort.

Good tip to light up from a friend is to fire on parafin soaked wood first then once thats going keep topping up with wood as it burns hotter and helps to get heat transfer into boiler, tried this yesterday and had the blower going within 20 minutes and no wind at all, then switch to coal but smallish lumps. Welsh dry steam coal is very good to run on, no smoke, high calorific content, lights easily, picked up a couple of bags from the last few rallies but think I will need to order a ton if I want it to use as and when!!!

I would also suggest checking and setting the timing hot, not nessecarily with pressure but definately hot. Can be done under pressure as I have now done this three times. The LP side isnt too bad but the HP side is a bit scary if the regulator lets by a bit but only when getting the cover off, once its off there is just a slight puff of steam coming form the inlet port. But getting it set really good makes it runs very sweetly.

Ran for about two hours and covered about 3 miles round the local estate, first is definatley too slow for roads, second is OK but to get a speed up the motion is starting to thrash, third is very comfortable, runs quite slowly when needed but can trot along to get from A to B. Bloody roads though shake to spine to bits!!!! Small cracks and bumps that the car doesnt even notice are like driving down valleys, thank god I put JB weld in the hornplates on Tuesday as it would easily cause things to jolt if not.

I will get around to uploading a video of it running slow later, tried to shoot some whilst on the road but doesnt make very good veiwing due to the bumps.

Anyone else getting on with actual running??? We are at another do this weekend Kingsfold Kite and Vintage do near Horsham if anyone is in the area. Will certainly be there and running on Saturday but dont know about Sunday yet.


Last edited by highpressure on Thu 20 Sep 2012, 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Steaming again!!

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