2" Burrell

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2" Burrell

Post  Ricey on Wed 07 Mar 2012, 9:47 am

Hello everyone I'm seriously considering getting one of these engines but just can't decide whether to commit Shocked
I've never done anything like this before and seems a big commitment. Can anyone give me any advice, are they pretty straight forward to build?
Thanks Very Happy

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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  Robfishman on Wed 07 Mar 2012, 2:39 pm

Before I start I should say I'm building the 4" showmans but your probably thinking the same as me before I started.

I was in the same position about a year ago, never worked with metal before and have no idea how to operate a traction engine (dont panic though I will know by the time I finish the build). What I can tell you is there is a great bunch of people both here on the forum and at STW who are never far away with help and advise. I've also picked up quite a lot from other owners on the rally field.

It's been a dream of mine for more years than I care to remember to own a traction engine, and I have to say without the work done by STW, and the service they offer I would probably never manage it, and certainly would not work on building it.

Thay certainly are not a meccano kit but so far I have not needed loads of expensive equipment to build it. All I have used so far is bench grinder, dremel with flex shaft, socket set, allen keys, a set of files, remers, and a socket and tap set. I had the same thoughts as you, and contacted Dean at STW. We had a number of discussions both over the phone and via email over about 2-3 months before I convinced myself I could actually achieve it, and the daughter and I have not looked back since and it's really been quite an enjoyable experience so far.

It's worth giving them a call and speaking to them about any concerns you may have, I'm sure they are the same as many of us have had and in my case I'm please i went for it.

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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  bjwlancashire on Wed 07 Mar 2012, 5:33 pm

I would like to back up Rob's comments as a time served engineer with just not enough time to spare to build my own. Quality of kits is very good and with the 2" engine that will certainly be quite manageable for a first go too - I reckon Dean did a good sell on Rob for his first engine, in at the deep end. Laughing

I am doing the 4" Road Loco and although there have been a couple of small issues in my kits - one offs, not faults in every kit, things that needed replacing are sent next day delivery.

You will ache, get dirty, dusty, no doubt bloodied and possibly divorced but it is well worth the effort.

The instructions Steve writes are very good too, that plus the support of Lynn on the forum (another builder just in case you aint noticed her yet) and you can't really go wrong.

Finally, one thing STW are not afraid of and that is showing you thier factory set up and how they produce the kits, they are normally more than happy to give to a tour of the facilities where you will see the various control models taking shape. Go and make a visit.

Go for it and good luck.

Brian

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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  TonyT on Wed 07 Mar 2012, 8:33 pm

Firstly, I will back up Brian and Rob's comments about STW. A very good company to deal with, and always helpful.

As an owner of a 2" Burrell which I built between 2006-2009, I have had nothing but fun with my engine. I regularlly drive my engine around on weekends, giving rides to the kids where I live. So far I've only done 1 rally, which was the West of England in Cornwall last year, and the engine worked well over the 3 days.

The build of the engine was fiddley at times due to its size, the tender springs to mind, but apart from that it was good fun to build. Gave me many hours hiding away in the shed tinkering away with hand tools. Talking of which, the only tools I bought was a new set of files and a compressor for painting and running the engine on air. You would need to get some small BA, AF, and metric spanners, unless you've already got them.

I would say building a 2" engine is a good way of getting into the world of steam, you will take a steep learning curve,and it will keep you very busy. No sneaking off to the beer tent for a crafty 1 or 2, unless you want a cold engine!

Go for it! You won't regret it.

Tony

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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  lynnr on Wed 07 Mar 2012, 10:29 pm

Yes go for it. I an doing the 4" showman and it is my first engine. Just like you wanted for years but did not have the space for tools. Yes all STW products are catagorically hand tools only. Compressor is optional for painting or test running.

Buy an engine get a lot of friend for free.

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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  IanL on Thu 08 Mar 2012, 12:17 am

Yes go for it.
As several of the above posts have said I also have always wanted a steam engine something a bit bigger than a Mamod. however, I am not an engineer but a DIY around the house and servicing my cars. hence had no knowledge or skills go build one, that's was until I spotted STW. I visited the factory open day last summer and was amazed at the quality of what I saw there. A few weeks later I revisited the factory and met with Dean who gave my wife and I a personal tour of the factory and showed us the display models one of which was a 2" engine. We had paid our deposit for a DCC road loco before we left, with the first kit following a week later at our request.

Tools, mainly the ones I already had sockets sets including small BA and metric, small files, angle grinder and mini drill with flexible drive, electric drill with Imperial and metric drill bits, yes I have bought more things but I like an excuse for new toys. Oops tools.

I live just outside Derby so you could come around to look at what I have done so far send me a pm .

Best wishes

Ian

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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  lynnr on Thu 08 Mar 2012, 12:54 am

See. It has just happened. Buy and engine and get friends for free Very Happy

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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  Julia on Thu 08 Mar 2012, 1:52 am

Think very carefully about the scale. The 2" engines are no easier to build and may be more difficult because the parts are smaller. When it comes to steaming you will find it much less than half the fun! If you want an engine that is easy to live with and can be finished to a high standard mainly for display with the occasional steaming the 2" is for you. If you want something to drive around you would be better to go straight to a 4" kit. A leading question would be to ask how may ex 2" builders are now building 4".

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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  CaptainClag on Thu 08 Mar 2012, 5:02 am

I'm building one of the current batch of 2" engines, and it's... superb. Iíve got a fair bit of steam operating experience (driver on a standard gauge preserved railway), but never actually built anything like this before Ė no machining skills whatsoever! I'm currently on kit 4 and nearly everything so far has fitted perfectly with just hand tools, most of which Iíve had from the local DIY store.

Itís very true that smaller engines are less powerful and more of a handful (thatís true of full size locos as well) than most of the engines youíll see on the rally field, but set against that, itíll fit in the back of a car, so no need for a van or trailer. And at the moment my workbench is just a Black and Decker Workmate, which is just about big enough!

So go on, take the plunge!

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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  Ricey on Thu 08 Mar 2012, 5:18 am

Right thanks everyone for your informative comments! And thanks Ian I'll let you know Very Happy
I'm going to have just a little longer think but it's looking like I'm going to take the plunge Very Happy

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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  northburrell on Thu 08 Mar 2012, 1:24 pm

Welcome to the Forum,

I agree with all the comments, well most of them anyway I dont agree with what Julia says, I think most of the 2" owners still have there models and run then very well and they are allot more than just a display model!!
I'm still buildng my 2" from the first batch just havent had the time to get the thing finished and it's not due to the kit rather to me having so many things I do. you'll find a picture of mine in the photo's section.

many model steam locomotives are small and they give you the best challange when driving them. keeping a good fire to pull a heaver load around is a challange and it really makes the thing work for it's living and teaches you alot about driving and firing a steam engine. bigger engines are a bit lazy more power less skill with the same load. you'll need to buy a trailer for it. maybe even get a bigger house or garage. you will learn allot from a smaller engine esp in driving and firing it. I bet if a 4" owner was to drive a 2" with heavy load it wouldnt be long before there was no water and the fire was out. (sorry 4" owners Wink ) if you can drive a 2" or smaller then you can drive anything. I drive my 1" scale minnie traction engine about with a trailer with me on it and it really makes the thing work hard and is great fun too.

it's really up to you though STW are great and so are the models they make. the 2" would be a great introduction to steam without the added extra hastle of owning a 4". yes I would have a 4" but I dont have the room. the car to pull a trailer (cant fit a tow hook) and i'm saving for a full size Roller at the moment and to move house for it. With a 2" it's lift it drop it in the back of your car and off you go.

if you have the room, the cash, trailer and car to pull it then ye go for a 4"




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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  LilyJack on Sun 18 Mar 2012, 5:48 am

Hello Ricey and everyone else,
Been a fair ole while since I last looked on this as work gettin in the way n whatnot,
I am a 2" owner (no laughing please lol), some bits are fiddly as hell I'll not make you think any less (see rivets for tender)haha but all I'll say is,patience and beer and a decent radio equals a brilliant time building her, there's still a few things I want to improve on the ole gal but generally speaking it really was good fun building her make no mistake and as said by Mr NB, two of ya can just lift it into the car and away you go(transport costs are a thing to consider building a 4") I'd have loved the 4" but for practicality the 2" wins hands down for me, hope this helps your hmmmm's and ahhhhhh's. Easy ish to build and when you first fire it up,you'll be grinning like a Cheshire cat!!

Best regards

LilyJack Cool

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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  northburrell on Tue 27 Mar 2012, 5:29 am

Or you might be able to buy one ready made soon as i'm finishing off mine and i'm going to sell it. I've contradicted myself really here as i'm going for a 4" Model. I've found somewhere to keep one and have managed to source a cheep as hell trailer to fit MY GF's tank,,, er I mean land rover..

PM me if your interested it'll be around the same price as a kit from STW but fully finished and painted up with very nice lining on it. Like I said it's not finished yet but will be soon as i've got the other rear wheel made up and painted. just the other gear guard and front wheel to paint now..

J


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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  IanR on Thu 18 Oct 2012, 3:00 am

Hi everybody, I've just joined here. I'm in the same position as the original poster Ricey. I'm seriously considering doing the 2in Burrell. But am nervous about the commitment. Both in terms of my skill and whether STW will be here to see my engine completed. What experience have you all had dealing with them. I'm little concerned about their communication after my first attempt to contact them. I sent an email asking for more information 4 days ago and have not received a reply as yet. Doesnít seem to be a good way to treat a potential new customer.

As for me and my experience. I've dabbled with small scale (16mm) live steam railways for quite a few years. Buying an operating ready to run engines. Can do little bits of maintenance up to things like setting valve timing but never have attempted to build anything. Although I do have a lathe passed to me from my father (a fairly accomplished model engineer) I feel any sort of machining is well beyond me. Also not confident about doing silver soldering. Happy to do cleaning up and the odd bit of thread cutting. So from what I've read here looks like these kits should be within my capabilities.

As for comments about the challenge of steaming a smaller scale engine. I think if I can steam a coal fired railway loco with 2in diameter boiler and a grate that is about 1 1/2 square I think I should be OK with a 2in scale traction engine.

Any advice before I 'take the plunge' would be most appreciated.

Thanks
Ian

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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  lynnr on Thu 18 Oct 2012, 3:09 am

IanR wrote:Hi everybody, I've just joined here. I'm in the same position as the original poster Ricey. I'm seriously considering doing the 2in Burrell. But am nervous about the commitment. Both in terms of my skill and whether STW will be here to see my engine completed. What experience have you all had dealing with them. I'm little concerned about their communication after my first attempt to contact them. I sent an email asking for more information 4 days ago and have not received a reply as yet. Doesnít seem to be a good way to treat a potential new customer.

As for me and my experience. I've dabbled with small scale (16mm) live steam railways for quite a few years. Buying an operating ready to run engines. Can do little bits of maintenance up to things like setting valve timing but never have attempted to build anything. Although I do have a lathe passed to me from my father (a fairly accomplished model engineer) I feel any sort of machining is well beyond me. Also not confident about doing silver soldering. Happy to do cleaning up and the odd bit of thread cutting. So from what I've read here looks like these kits should be within my capabilities.

As for comments about the challenge of steaming a smaller scale engine. I think if I can steam a coal fired railway loco with 2in diameter boiler and a grate that is about 1 1/2 square I think I should be OK with a 2in scale traction engine.

Any advice before I 'take the plunge' would be most appreciated.

Thanks
Ian

Paragraph 1. Steam Traction World are suffering. A deluge of spam into the info@ email address at the moment. Best idea is to phone and talk to Dean.

You will not need to do any soldering as if by misfortune a part is not correct. Phone Steam Traction World and they will send a new item and sometimes request the old item back for inspection. The 2" is a mature product so should not cause any problems. I have build the 4" showman and it is all hand tools only. Couple of minor problems which were offered as replacement or send back as soon as the issue raised.

I am over 2 years into my build and I am extremely pleased with the kit, finished product and support.



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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  IanL on Thu 18 Oct 2012, 3:24 am

Hi Ian,

I took the plunge into building an STW engine July 2011 and have met the team several times, and always had a warm welcome. I had similar concerns about being able to do the build but so far only hand tools have been needed and now half way through the build. It is now beginning to look like a traction engine.

The hardest part so far has been painting the parts and achieving the standard of finish I am happy with.

I hope this helps you make up your mind

Ian

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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  Tony King on Thu 18 Oct 2012, 3:53 am

If you are wanting a 2" traction engine, then this is definately the way to go.
I have built the 4" agricultural engine & was so impressed with it & the help & back up from STW, that I had absolutely no doubts about committing to the 4" showmans I'm now building.
As has been said, the 2" engine is well tried & tested, so should be a straight forward project, provided you have patience to fiddle with all them teeny weeny nuts & bolts Very Happy
The arrival of a kit every month is like the best Christmas present you've had in years!! bounce
Go for it!!
Regards,
Tony

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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  Robfishman on Thu 18 Oct 2012, 1:29 pm

I think everyone above has covered what I was going to say, we're also building the 4" showmans at the moment and also would have no hesitation in starting another one when this one is finished.

Not had to contact STW towers very much, but have always found them very helpful and eager to help and advise. As Dean said to me it's no mecano set, but i think he said there are builders from 12 to 82, I decided if they could then so could I. Oh and I have no experience with steam or working with metal but not had a problem, and actually enjoyed it so far.

Worth spending some time reading build diaries and looking at the owners photos section, I did have reservations but read almost every post on the forum before I placed my order. I went for it and placed my order with STW and not looked back.

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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  IanR on Thu 18 Oct 2012, 2:11 pm

Thanks to you all for your encouraging replies. I spoke to Dean on th phone this afternoon and I think I am going to go for it. He said they are part way through a batch now which I could start with the first kit immediately if I want and even catch up with the build. Would like to visit the facttory first which Dean ecouraged me to do. Only thing now is to get some time off work to go there. Really getting excited about building my own engine and I haven't even placed the order yet.

Again thanks to everyone. It seems to be a really active community. Fingures crossed I should be on here quite a bit!

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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  TonyT on Mon 22 Oct 2012, 6:45 pm

One thing that Julia and I touched on earlier on in this thread, was the size of a 2" compaired to a 4".

A 2" engine is about a quarter of the size of a 4", which is a good point from where I'm coming from. I have limited room at home to store Chloe and her gubbins, plus I carry her, wagon, and stuff around in the back of a Mondeo estate. Storage and transport no problem.

In the real world, a 4" engine is a lot easier to steam than a 2", no nipping off to the beer tent and coming back an hour later to a warm engine. The 2" needs a lot more attention to keep in steam. Water still boils at the same point regardless of boiler size, so on the smaller engine you have to be more on the ball with your water level and fire control. Especially in Cornwall where things tend to go up and down hill. There is a feeling among some owners of minature engines, that there is more skill involved running a 2" engine over a 4", but then I would say that. Laughing

At the end of the day Ian, go for it. You will have loads of fun building, and then running an engine

Tony


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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  IanR on Tue 23 Oct 2012, 5:59 am

Hi Tont
My reasons for going for 2" rather than 4" are exactly the reasons you say. I can't drive because of my eyesight so I'm reliant on my wife for anything that needs a car to get about. I'd love a 4" and would not be any more scared pf building one but something that can fit in the back of her hatchback really is a must.

I've played around with really quite small scale coal fired railway loco's and a little bit with some larger scales and I know how much more difficult it is to keep a fire going and water level right in a small boiler. I think compared to what I"ve been used to the 2" Burrell should seem quite easy.

I really want to get up to the factory to look at one 'in the flesh' to see if it really would be enough to satisfy me. I think I will be going for it though!

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Re: 2" Burrell

Post  IanR on Sun 24 Feb 2013, 2:15 pm

I finally got up to the factory on Tuesday, Dean made me very welcome. Decided to go for the 2in. Burrell and the driving wagon. As the new batch won't start until July I decideded to start the wagon straight away. Kit 1 for the wagon arrived on Friday and I already have 2 wheels assembled. I think this is good practice for all the spokes I'll have to do on the engine itself!

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