Kit22 Gears

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Kit22 Gears

Post  lynnr on Fri 23 Dec 2011, 1:36 am

Hi All

Having not had too much exposure to full size engines with the ability to crawl over them. Not very many in the North of Scotland. What is the painting convention with the gears in mind. Do you paint the castings and just leave the machined surfaces free. Or do you not paint at all?


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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  Tim Watson on Fri 23 Dec 2011, 2:54 am

I would definitely paint them, up to the machined area. Black is a good colour, as they will not stay clean.

Tim

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  highpressure on Fri 23 Dec 2011, 9:30 am

Couple of things, can you confirm which bits you would paint up to, have you got any photos? I wasnt thinking of painting mine, on the other engine I remember the centre of the diff being red and sone of the edges of the drive gears having red on them but the whole DCC assembly looks quite intricate and not sure which bits need to be painted. Plus I expect the drive transfer gears to be covered with a guard perhaps?

Secondly the fit is superb, the selectors on the crank are just as good as I remember the control being and mine have just slide onto the splines with no issues at all. Might get the second shaft in tomorrow and see how that all goes together.

Only seven kits left now for the Road Loco!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Very Happy Very Happy

Kev.

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  Tim Watson on Fri 23 Dec 2011, 10:49 am

I would simply paint the bits that are as cast. Looking at the RL gears, this would really only be the outer one that is visible on the right, as I don't think that is completely covered by a guard. The UJ cover would probably be in body colour, but on your engine that doesn't give much choice!

Tim

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  bjwlancashire on Sat 24 Dec 2011, 2:50 am

I think you should get fiitting this lot first before worrying about colour schemes Wink I had a few hours last night and came up with a couple of small issues.

1) 3rd speed crank gear and housing touches the crank bearing adjuster cap head screw while still a couple of mm away from the crank bearing. this causes the outer edge to be just rubbing the edge of the 2nd shaft 3rd gear before the hub is up against the thrust washer. I will source a grub screw to replace the cap head screw which will allow the 3rd speed crank gear housing to move closer to the crank bearing side and givre good clearance between the various components.

2) The second shaft is not square when the universal joint cover is fastened to the 2nd shaft gear hub. this causes the drive end to be out of true, waving around in the hole when rotating the gears on the running face. It looked like a couple of mm again here. I stripped assembly down and checked squareness of the 2nd shaft to the UJ cover and it was out, caused by some rough machining of the square. The edge the cover bottoms out on when fitted on the square was wavy like the roughing cut had been to far in so no final finishing cut could be applied without making the distance between this edge and the other end of the shaft to short. I fettled this with a needle file and got it almost right - enough to get the 2nd shaft bush into the LH end of the 2nd shaft tube. There is still a slight tight spot but I will check how much clearance is in the square to see if some 0.05 shim will go in and tighten the UJ cover fit preventing it being pulled to one side when the washer is screwed tight. If I just used the lapping compound on the bush and shaft it will just make the bush to big as the end of the second shaft is still out of true by a fraction, a little more patience will have it spot on.

3) When the 2nd shaft drive gear was fitted on the LH end there was no side float on the shaft. It made the shaft a little tighter to turn when tighted up. Lapping would probably not give enough clearance in this instance based on the fact that the engine will grow when it gets warm and probably make the shaft to tight. We do not need a toolroom fit here, probably 0.5mm of float would be good here so a fine spacer between the end of the second shaft and the fixing washer will have the desired effect.

Sorry I have no photos to illustrate this but I tend to get on with the job then realise once i finish for the night I should have taken some at the time. It was 2am in the morning when I finally emerged. Very Happy

Having sais all this, it is still going together well and is not unsurmountable. Just need to find some time over Christmas to put these things right and also finish the valve gear assembly. One word of warning, the 2nd Shaft gear assembly is obvioulsy quite heavy, the whole gear box was 40kg!!! I was sliding this onto the 2nd shaft by hand rather than using the lifting gear due to accessibility and I could not wait to dig it out from where it is and move stuff around. It takes some doing by hand when you are tiking it on and aff a few times Embarassed

I must say it is vey nice to be ale to slide the crank gears into mesh with the 2nd shaft gears, turn the crank and have the drive transmitted cheers

Brian[/list]

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  highpressure on Sat 24 Dec 2011, 6:03 am

Hi Brian,

I have also discovered the end of the socket screw interfering with the correct placement of the third gear "cover" causing the second gear to "drag" on the second shaft gear. A quick look through the screw fix catalogue shows a couple of other sizes, however will this even be accesible with all the stuff in place?? Plus the adjustment on this will literally be a couple of thou?? Havent tried the second shaft but your description of how to solve seems to make sense and seems to be quite straight forward so I will look at in a few days when there is a few spare moments.

Having said that the whole assembly is a joy to look at, very well machined and fits together beautifully. Dont know how you can get the stuff to turn though. Despite lapping all the stuff in with the S & B stuff the combined resistances of all the various bits dragging mean its impossible to move the crank now without the flywheel which will hopefully make it easier.

Merry Xmas to all

Kev.

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  lynnr on Sat 24 Dec 2011, 6:57 am

I also found the bearing adjuster fouled the hub. I removed 3 threads from the end and halfed the lock nut. All fits in place now.

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  lynnr on Sat 24 Dec 2011, 8:01 am

Found the 3rd gear to be very tight at one spot. So loosened off the screws that hold all the gears together. Turned the lot until it went even and retightened. Problem solved. Slight tolerance on the gear hub. So though I would share my findings.

Pictures tonight.

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  lynnr on Sat 24 Dec 2011, 10:49 am

lynnr wrote:I also found the bearing adjuster fouled the hub. I removed 3 threads from the end and halfed the lock nut. All fits in place now.

Found that a standard bolt and lock nut works much better. Lots more clearance from the 3rd gear hub.

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  Tim Pennett on Sat 24 Dec 2011, 1:08 pm

Hi Lynn,

Its looking very impressive!

Just out of interest, how is the gearing on the 2nd shaft put together; is it a central hub with the three gear rings bolted on - It looks quite a hefty lump! I have miss placed my Solidworks CD, otherwise I would have consulted that.

All the very best for Christmas.

P.S. Most of the best engines appear to be ending up "in the North of Scotland" but I guess Aberdeen is not considered North from where you are! Wink

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  lynnr on Sat 24 Dec 2011, 1:22 pm

Hi Tim

The 2nd shaft gear "pack" is a central hub with all 3 gear cogs bolted to it. two from one side and the last from the other. I would estimate about 20kg worth.

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  bjwlancashire on Sun 25 Dec 2011, 2:57 pm

highpressure wrote:Hi Brian,

Dont know how you can get the stuff to turn though. Despite lapping all the stuff in with the S & B stuff the combined resistances of all the various bits dragging mean its impossible to move the crank now without the flywheel which will hopefully make it easier.

Kev.

Hi Kev

I forgot to mention that the crank was not connected to anything alse at the time I turned the gears with it, I had just replaced it due to a slight problem I had. I did add comment about it to one of your earlier threads about big end bearings not fitting. No doubt it will all get heavy when I connect it all back up again. It is plain to see why an engine that is not run in will certainly lack some power. I have bought the lapping compound so will be lapping the crank bearings and all the rest as I go along.

Will be back in workshop Boxing day morning while rest of family sleep in, I got my kip during a movie after Christmas dinner today - I did want to watch it, just couldnt stop myself!!

Cheers

Brian

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  highpressure on Wed 28 Dec 2011, 2:43 am

Looking at the pictures Craig took of The President the only part of the gears that seems to have paint on is the UJ cover, with a small highlight of lining on. So I'm prepping the cover today to get it black and then I will see how to lay out the lining.

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  highpressure on Sat 28 Jan 2012, 5:51 am

lynnr wrote:I also found the bearing adjuster fouled the hub. I removed 3 threads from the end and halfed the lock nut. All fits in place now.

Having got all the jobs done that were getting in the way of me finishing the engine off I am now making headway towards the final hurdle. Subsequently I have taken off the drive gears etc to paint the inner set and UJ cover as per the pictures of The President that Craig kindly posted. Next the crank comes back out for the final fit but wanted to know, What was the final concensus of opinion on what to do with the adjuster that fouls the third gear? Is it as above and just shorten to fit??

Fitting all the little brass bits now such as water tap, globe valve, sight glass etc. Hopefully within the next few weeks all the boxes with the odd two or three bits in will be cleared which will stop me from panicking that I wont know where the bits go or what holds them on??? Embarassed Embarassed

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  lynnr on Sat 28 Jan 2012, 6:55 am

Hi I replaced the bolt with a normal hex head itherwise you can file the head down to make it clear.

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  bjwlancashire on Mon 30 Jan 2012, 5:29 am

I replaced the bolt with a grub screw of the same length. An allen key just reaches it through the hole in the specatacle plate. I though it was important to have access through the same hole and keep the limited space around the crank bearing for the lock nut spanner only.

Also, BEWARE everyone who is still fine tuning the crank bearings!!!!!

I was being smart using the gears to turn the crank more while lapping the crank bearings in and managed to catch my little finger in the gear train and chewed it up a little Sad

Unfotunately, at the time I had gloves on with rubberised grips as my hands were hurting from constantly dragging the crankshaft and then the gear train round and the glove was what probably held my fingers on the gear a little longer as I let go to re-position my hand for another push - dumb really but we live and learn.

Blackbeard 1 - 0 Brian


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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  highpressure on Mon 30 Jan 2012, 8:51 am

Hi Brian,

Not sure I can visualise the lock nut without looking at the engine, but basically shorten the bolt somehow...

I can beat the injury, those who know me (Tim, Colin, David etc) will know that on the last engine I thought it was a good idea to hold onto the cod rod whilst it was running. I could hear a knock which I couldnt place and thought I might be able to "feel" it. Subsequently my ring finger got caught in between the cod rod and slide bar which I measured at about 1/16". The piston wont stop for anything not least squishy bits of us and it chewed the end up properly.... broke the tip of the bone on both sides and opened up the end removing the nail. Felt like I had been stung at the time and I took the glove off expecting to see the end of my finger missing which it could so easily have been. Hurt like buggery the following day though and took two months to heal and I still have wierd sensations on touch on that finger now.

I was always acutely aware of how dangerous these engines can be not leats duw to the hot surfaces and at rallies some parents and kids have no respect for property and insist on pawing all over them but we would get the blame if they got hurt.

Cheers Kev.

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  Flasback on Mon 07 May 2012, 10:11 am

STW,

Quick question, I have completed the dry build of this kit and am happy with it, I was thinking of putting the key ways in, but reading the instructions again I want to make sure I can do it now or do I need to wait? What have other builders done?

cheers

Dwain

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  lynnr on Mon 07 May 2012, 10:34 am

Hi Dwain

Instructions say install key ways. Is your crank ready and smooth? If so install. Some are waiting until water pump before fitting the keys. Make sure the crank bearing adjuster does not foul third gear boss.

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  Flasback on Mon 07 May 2012, 10:52 am

Hi Lynn,

Thanks, I have done all that, and its okay.

I am just in two minds and did not know which cause of action to take Sad

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  highpressure on Mon 07 May 2012, 11:51 am

My Keys are still not in, and wont be until the final kit containing the pump is here, it wont take but a few minutes to fit the keys, but it might be a real pain to find the crank is fixed and might just be easier to do something without it insitu. Have you got the revised version of the eccentrics to get them the right way round. Havent put the keys in the diff either.

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  Robfishman on Mon 07 May 2012, 12:33 pm

For the time it takes to pop them in i think I'd also leave them out for now.

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Re: Kit22 Gears

Post  Flasback on Mon 07 May 2012, 12:37 pm

Hi Kev,

yes I got the drawing when it came out, thanks for your input, I think I will keep the key ways out till the last minute and then fit them, same for the diff.


cheers

Dwain

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Re: Kit22 Gears

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