Frederick SRL(S)

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  bjwlancashire on Tue 14 Aug 2012, 3:15 pm

Hi Tim

A super bit of model engineering, really looks the part too. could you take a photo of one of the lids when you take one off so we can see the underside to better understand the description?

I look forwrd to seeing this engine in steam in the not to distant future. What a line up we can have if we get all the engines together sometime.

See you at Dorset no doubt.

Brian

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Underside of oiler cap: as requested

Post  Tim Watson on Wed 15 Aug 2012, 11:44 am


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All his own work

Post  Tim Watson on Fri 17 Aug 2012, 7:06 am

Max critically appraising the initial lining on the back wheels.



Now for all the snakes tongues and hub!

Tim


Last edited by Tim Watson on Tue 21 Aug 2012, 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total

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solid gold!

Post  Tony King on Fri 17 Aug 2012, 11:09 am

Absolutely stunning, your patience is paying off ............... go to the top of the class!!!
There is nothing to better that real gold!!
In admiration,
Tony

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Today's mystery object

Post  Tim Watson on Sat 25 Aug 2012, 4:38 am

Any ideas what this is for?



I will show more tonight.

Tim

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Looking good!

Post  Steve Traill on Sat 25 Aug 2012, 7:43 am

I would guess it's some sort of template to paint the curved lines on the rim between the spokes?!?

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  Tim Watson on Sat 25 Aug 2012, 8:29 am

I think you have a bit of inside knowledge!

Tim

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Awkward Lines

Post  Tim Watson on Sat 25 Aug 2012, 11:27 am

The paint scheme on the wheels of some showmans have awkward lining between the spokes on the T ring; as seen in King William V, the engine whose livery I am basing Frederick upon.



I have therefore made a robust jig that allows the Beugler paint wheeler to follow a set pattern. It is made from styrene and took a couple of hours to make - it only needs one hand to lightly hold it in place. it can be seen on the wheel ready to use:



The Beugler is used with one of the metal followers firmly clamped into place in line with the centre of the paint wheel. The follower runs in the channel within the plastic jig. It is designed so that the line continues the snake's tongue curve, which was previously hand lined on the palm of the spoke ends:





The red line is put on with the 0.8mm wheel and then the follower moved in a bit to put on the green line, which has been done with a thicker wheel to make painting easier. This is then filled in back to the edge of the T ring. I will show some pictures of the finished rims when completed. The jig works far better than I ever anticipated and the wheels were lined very quickly.

Would be happy to lend the jig to others, if they PM me and then send a SAE jiffy bag (alternatively I will be at GDSF).

Tim

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  Tony King on Sat 25 Aug 2012, 2:12 pm

Great post Tim. I think it's safe to say you will be inspireing alot of people to do as you have done!!
As I've said before looks fantastic, very well done, can't wait to see more pics!!
Regards,
Tony

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Finished back wheels

Post  Tim Watson on Mon 27 Aug 2012, 4:33 pm





It will be interesting to see the green in daylight. i expect it will look a lot darker.

Tim

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Wheels

Post  Steve Traill on Tue 28 Aug 2012, 10:59 am

WOW!

Simply stunning, what a great job

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Synchromesh anyone?

Post  Tim Watson on Fri 28 Sep 2012, 4:57 pm

I have been fettling and fitting the gear change recently. I had no problem getting the gears to slide easily on the splined shaft, but had a bit more fun once the change levers were brought into play.

The high wheel gear was very reluctant to move out of gear on the large splined drum. It would move quite easily outwards along the shaft but juddered horribly when going back in when it was in certain rotational positions. The instructions said to ease the ends of the keyways but I was reluctant to take too much off. When the recently cut out section of the splined drum was at the bottom, the gear moved easily both ways, so clearly it was pitching and yawing with the C shaped collar pressing at the top, causing it to bind on the splines. The solution was to mill out the top section of the C on the inside by about 2mm deep, so that it only engages on the bottom of the C shaped forks when moving the gear back into the hub.



The second wheel and low wheel were less of a challenge, but I found that putting a slight downward set on the lever between the brass fulcrum and the end pivot helped the second wheel movement in and out.

The locking tumbler at the back of the gear change works well enough, but when the high wheel lever was moved into gear past the mid line, it began to interfere with the tumbler, disengaging the locking position for the other lever. Therefore, the top of this was filed flat in this region to allow passage of the high wheel selector lever.


High wheel gear selector in position


The gear locking plate was exactly correct for the gears pins with only minor adjustment to the hole sizes in the selector levers.

Three shaft engines are good at not covering their owners with oil from the crankshaft, but they do tend to fling it forward. I had noticed that a number of Burrell road locos had a small gear guard over the high and second wheel to stop oil ending up on the belly tank. This was easily made out a spare piece of cleading which never got fitted and was silver soldered to the high wheel front bracket at the top and bottom. A small cut out was needed for the fulcrum pivot: it does not cover the low wheel.



Tim

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  lynnr on Fri 28 Sep 2012, 11:29 pm

Hi Tim

I also had fun with 3rd gear going one way but not the other. My yoke pivot pin was slightly out of true and sorting that helped a lot but not 100%. I found that by putting a 2mm washer under the fulcrum pin cured the issue completely.

I like the idea of the forward guard. It does appear ex-mayor has something similar.


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Getting clearances

Post  Tim Watson on Sat 13 Oct 2012, 12:21 pm

There has been a thread running on the RH drive collar elsewhere, but I thought I would recount my fiddling with the axle and spacings around the diff, wheel, gear guard, flywheel and brake.

Clearly, there is a lack of overall width on the axle which is compounded by diff components that may be a little over width. Starting on the right hand side, I ground off the raised collar on the drive casting to allow the RH wheel to move across by 1-2 mm and give more axle length on the left.

The first drive bevel on the diff has a raised boss next to the hornplate bearing. This displaces the diff too far over to the left. I therefore ground this boss down by about 4 mm to give more length for the rest of the diff on the axle. I also found some specks of weld splatter on the bevel gear teeth which were ground off, as they were forcing the gears apart. The second shaft gear now lines up perfectly with the final drive gear, with this first bevel drive shifted to the right, so allowing the final drive casting to fit closer to the hornplate.

The second bevel gear needed one narrow shim and the two washers. This then ended up spot on for the rebate on the axle for the driven wheel. I found that the left hand wheel retaining collar needed a bit taking off in the lathe to allow the pin to line up easily. After all this the diff works OK, better on one side than the other, being a bit lumpy on the left, but satisfactory (especially as nothing is oiled or greased up at this stage).

Having got this far I then tried the gear guard. Two rivets in the way of the flywheel were removed. The flywheel is hard up against the crankshaft pump gear drive. The flywheel was also going to rub the paint a bit, so I thinned down the feet of the guard a bit to gain nearly a millimetre in width.

With the flywheel tucked in close to the bearing, the brake shaft was too close to the inner rim. I therefore reduced the thickness of the baseplate of the supporting 'casting' by about 3mm to move the brake shaft closer to the hornplate.

After all this the flywheel is incredibly close to the gear guard, the brake shaft just clears and the wheel clearance is also reasonable. This should allow the dynamo belt to be pushed through the gap. There is about 12-14mm clearance between the rubber tyre and the boss of the flywheel, as shown by the one penny piece in the photo.



Tim


Last edited by Tim Watson on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  bjwlancashire on Tue 16 Oct 2012, 10:50 am

Tim

Interesting description form you regarding the overall width between the wheels and the fitting of the diff and all the other bits between the wheels collars. Not had the chance to do any more on Blackbeard regarding this issue but I certainly think the raised boss on the drive collar can have a millimeter or two off it.

With regard to the inner bevel boss pushing the diff gear out of alignment from the second shaft drive gear we were given a spacer to go between the hornplates and the second shaft drive gear if I remember. I also put a fine shim under the fixing bolt washer to allow some clearance for this gear in order to allow for expansion of the boiler and hornplates when warm as it seemed a pretty snug fit otherwise. I ended up with around 0.5mm of side play on the second shaft.

You describe removing material from the ineer bevel and drive collar to a tune of 6mm which seems quite a lot considering you could still not get the wheel collar on. I still feel the gears or pinions may have been cut incrrectly because they do not roll along smooth when you place the pinion onto the bevel gear. Only by sliding the pinion about half way off the edge does it run smooth which could still point to the teeth not being machined to the correct depth.

It is certainly a challenge to decide where best to make the adjustments as I had the inner bevel to pinion clearance right insomuch as there was no lumpyness but it does result in a lot of clearance between the teeth at this point. I also put in both of the spacers between the outer bevel and the diff centre as the intructions stated. However, in order to get the wheels on I had to remove one of the two spacers but it was tight and the diff was lumpy and locked up in certain positions . I tried remiving a 1mm spacer from between the inner bevel and the diff centre but nothing changed so it would seem that the tightness is all on the outer bevel teeth meaning an overall reduction in width by taking 2 or 3mm from the raised boss on the drive collar and replacing the second spacer I removed between the outer bevel and diff centre may have Blackbeard in good shape.

Any photos yet with those beautifully lined wheels on yet?

Cheers

Brian


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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  Tim Watson on Mon 24 Dec 2012, 11:20 am

Burrells have two types of drain cocks fitted to the RLs. The straight type supplied by STW with a loop of pipe returning the drains to the boiler or a ninety degree drain cock with the pie going straight down to the boiler:


(Apologies for the poor picture - it was taken at night at GDSF)

I prefer this pattern of drain cock as it keeps the pipe runs shorter and less vulnerable to knocks. I therefore silver soldered a modified ninety degree union onto a modified STW drain cock: not quite accurate but good enough for government work.



I also like the push rod for the drains to have positive end stops to prevent over-travel. I therefore made a couple of collars to fit on the shaft and hit the fixings for the brake shaft bracket. The observant amongst you will also notice that this is held in place with Allen screws: these are much more convenient than conventional bolts in many situations: I use them in inaccessible areas, where the appearance is not too obvious.



The man stand is nearly complete now: it just needs the boiler washout notice fixing. The start valve seems nice and free and easily pushes the button back next to the stop valve on the man stand, so I think this should be OK. I reckon it will be quite simple to make a linkage to take the regulator control to the back of the tender for easier road running. i have blanked off two of the holes on the piggy back regulator valve and fitted a lump of metal in the valve itself to get opening of the main port rather sooner than the intended design The degree of opening does not seem excessive, but there is no question that these engines get their skates on as designed - well the President (His Majesty) does anyway!

Best wishes for Christmas and the New Year to one and all!

Tim



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Man stand

Post  Tim Watson on Mon 24 Dec 2012, 4:58 pm

Over view of the back end.

Note the odometer / speedometer wireless display module visible in the bottom left hand corner, just below the flywheel brake wheel. This works by having a magnet buried in the inner rim of the winch drum and the detector sensor in line of sight of the display, attached to the gear guard at the front.

The injector valve has a 'kicker' soldered into the handle: I like these as they show where the valve is and are good for small hands to open up a stiff valve (thinking of grandson in a few years). I have been very impressed with the quality of the pipe runs in terms of geometry, when compared with the MW agricultural (from reading other posts, I have, however, re silver soldered some of the joints). I have chemically blackened quite a few fittings as, from experience, they will be challenging to keep clean in service.



Thanks to Dean, Steve and all the team at STW for making such a superb engine!

Tim

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  bjwlancashire on Tue 25 Dec 2012, 2:16 am

Merry Christmas Tim
I like the fact that you only show teaser pics of your engine, no full side shots etc. Or is that due to lack of space Wink

I notice you have left your injector pipe polished when you had previously mentioned painting it as on a full size engine, a little extra bling perhaps.

I have now bolted the canopy structure onto Blackbeard and my daughter has tried sitting on the seat and reaching the controls, it is a stretch fir her and I have also mentioned it would be possible to extend the regulator to the rear of the tender - possibly bolting a handle to the top of the seat frame to avoid any butchering of the tender.

Fredric is looking stunning and very individual with all your subtle changes to the design, looking forward to seeing it out during 2013.

Cheers

Brian

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  Tim Watson on Tue 25 Dec 2012, 2:38 am

Couldn't bring myself to paint the injector pipe at this stage, but might once the engine is earning a living!

Next few days I will take the engine outside for the first time, turn him round and then work on the front end: I still need to line the front wheels. There is very little room for a decent photo in the workshop.

I think a regulator bracket could be bolted to the inside of the tender using extended bolts and nuts from the left hand strap that fixes the tender extension piece in place. It could be easily made removable with the linkage connecting to the horizontal arm of the regulator on the left. This shouldn't interfere too much with access for firing etc..

Tim

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  mikero on Tue 25 Dec 2012, 2:55 pm

There's not a wide angle lens big enough to take a side view in Tim's workshop Brian and I don't think he will roll the engine out in the rain.

Happy Xmas

Mike

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Especially for Brian

Post  Tim Watson on Thu 27 Dec 2012, 9:00 am

Frederick was wheeled out (in the drizzly rain) photographed, turned round and then put back into the garage, just for Brian!







Thought of an excellent position for the Windermere kettle. It will be at the base of the chimney saddle casting on the RHS, fed from the blower pipe to the bottom of the heating coil - which is thermally more efficient - and then exhausting with a short connection straight into the chimney, just above the bottom flange of the chimney itself. The blower valve will be situated at the chimney end of the pipe rather than next to the cylinder. The kettle will also need a small base making to support it: this will be fixed to the top bolts of the dynamo extension bracket next to the chimney.

Now to get those front wheels lined!

Tim

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  lynnr on Thu 27 Dec 2012, 9:18 am

Looking lovely. Very Happy

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Windermere kettle

Post  Steve Traill on Thu 27 Dec 2012, 9:38 am

I can see you keeping the milk cool in the belly tank but where will you keep the teabags!

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  highpressure on Thu 27 Dec 2012, 11:04 am

The rest of us may as well just give up!!! No chance of winning any awards when you're on the field, just jaw dropping!!! Photographed correctly it will be almost impossible to tell it from the full size!!!

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  bjwlancashire on Thu 27 Dec 2012, 12:36 pm

Thanks Tim

How good it is to see Fredric out in the fresh air, looks superb. I have been playing with the canopy on Blackbeard during the holidays and have sorted out a simple opening for driving with the roof on. Regardung the Windermere kettle, I will need to wait for the STW one but that could be quite a wait.

Cheers

Brian

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

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