Frederick SRL(S)

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  MrStationHouse on Thu 08 May 2014, 2:14 pm

Thanks I think your second oiler idea is the best, where did you get them from.

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  the coleman on Thu 08 May 2014, 2:37 pm

There the same oilers as the ones stw supply I made a bracket to replace the ones for the second shaft there are some pictures on my thread. I also made the pipe go behind the second shaft and into the pipe in the oil box i did have cut a slot in the other side .

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  Tim Watson on Thu 08 May 2014, 4:31 pm

Definitely a better idea.

Tim

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  MrStationHouse on Thu 08 May 2014, 11:25 pm

Thanks Andy,

I take it STW supplied it as well?

Cheers
Simon

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  highpressure on Fri 09 May 2014, 2:18 am

Yes the factory supplied the oilers, just remember if you are going to attach a length of 5/32 pipe with a fitting on the end you need to ask for the second shaft oilers with the ME thread otherwise they will be M6 as per all the other ones on the crank etc and wont take the fitting. Bloody ME nonsense!!!

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  Brian M on Fri 09 May 2014, 12:37 pm

Or you could buy the pipe from STW (as it is the same size as the pipe fittings connected to your taps on your cylinder), which is all I did when I did the mod...Very Happy

Cheers,

Brian


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Remote linkage for regulator

Post  Tim Watson on Sat 24 May 2014, 9:10 am

After much communal head scratching, many pints of beer at rallies, back of envelope/beer mat sketches and fiddling I have finally fitted a remote linkage to the regulator on 'Frederick'.

The driving position on most miniatures is pretty poor and on the showman's the roof can be a bit of nuisance to get easy access across the man stand (I've yet to see any of the road locos keep their roofs on for any length of time). My neck does not like a days driving. I tend to drive the engine sitting on the left, with Max, or grandson in the middle or right. I did not want to have a linkage which interfered with coaling the engine or to get in the way of the driver on the right, if that is how we are operating.

The linkage uses a re-worked reversing lever, pivoted from the top bolt of the back roof support with the linkage pivot about 50mm from the fulcrum. The M6 stainless pivot bolt has a nut between the handle and the tender side to adjust the stiffness of the new handle and takeout wobble: this is then locked up by the nut on the outside. The new handle drives forward via a clevis to a pivot point that is extended below the left hand end of the regulator handle.



The old regulator handle has an M6 hole drilled about 46mm from the pivot point on the left. A pillar was made with an M6 thread at the top which went through the regulator arm to take a nice dome headed nut (out of deference to Tony) to lock the two components together. The pillar extended downwards with a plain turned down end, to take the engine end of the linkage with a pivot designed to take the drive through 90 degrees.



This photo shows the regulator pulled back, the linkage is prevented from dropping off the downwards pillar by a washer and split pin. It all tucks in quite nicely around the starting button, pressure gauge, oiler and water pump.



The linkage (made from 6mm stainless rod) obviously has a lazy Z in it to clear the pump, steering wheel and other controls. This photo shows the amount of movement with the regulator fully open. In theory the geometry shouldn't work because of conflicting arcs of motion, but there is enough give in the system and the arcs of movement are fairly small for this to not be a problem. The reversing handle acting as the new regulator possesses a major mechanical advantage over the original arrangements and should give reasonable fine control.

I haven't yet used it in anger, but will try it tomorrow, as I will be driving around St Albans publicising our rally next weekend.
I'll post an update.

Tim

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  Tony King on Sat 24 May 2014, 2:05 pm

Excellent post Tim, many thanks for sharing your very elegant solution... particularly like the use of domed 6mm nut!! Would look perfect on my engineVery Happy I'd like to copy your design if you don't mind!!

Did you get a "spare" reversing lever from STW?

Infact STW might be able to do a little kit of bits for this, as it would use nearly all parts that are already produced & I recon there'd be quite a few takers!! How about it Steve/Dean??

Regards,
Tony

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  Tim Watson on Sun 25 May 2014, 2:07 am

Tony
Steve supplied a new RL regulator and reversing lever from the agricultural (actually I think they are very similar to the SRL) and a coulple of clevis'. I used the new regulator to rough out the idea: I was originally going to silver solder the bits on, but then found a simpler more easily retrofitted method. In the end I simply modified the regulator I had on 'Frederick'.

To make the the reversing lever look presentable it had the pivot for the catch handle removed and some steel pins riveted into the two holes for the catch handle spring. The boss had a steel rod Loctited and riveted through the front-to-back centre hole and was reduced in width to take the clevis which came from the RL regulator. Obviously, the reversing lever was considerably shortened at the bottom end. It was also reduced in size overall, to make it a bit more elegant. The fitting at the engine end of the rod could have used another clevis, but I thought a simple turning was neater. Components were chemically blackened to reduce rust problems.

STW could very easily make this kit with a very slight redesign of the reversing lever. Find out if it works this afternoon.

Tim


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Good news & bad news

Post  Tim Watson on Sun 25 May 2014, 3:31 pm

Well the regulator linkage worked well. Needs a bit of careful adjustment for length for full opening, but it certainly makes road running a pleasure and much more relaxed. The engine seems more docile as the regulator is less sharp, but easily adjusted.

So a friend and I had a really pleasant saunter round St Albans. Strangely, the oiler linkage came adrift a couple of miles into the run. It seemed to be dancing around a bit after we had reattached it to the valve rod, whilst gently travelling at 6 mph in high wheel (rough St Albans roads won't let you go any faster). Climbing a fairly steady hill in high wheel there was a bit of a knock and the engine momentarily locked. We stopped, took it out of gear, turned it over and couldn't find too much that was wrong. We then proceeded cautiously and covered the last half mile home.

On running the engine, every now and then there was something occasionally catching, which seemed to emanate from the low pressure valve chest which simply didn't sound right. Took the cover off and low and behold - a bent valve rod. The brass keeper on the outside of the valve had come adrift - no sign of the small screws, although in retrospect, we did hear a funny burping sound from the exhaust four times on the run. Let's hope STW have a spare low pressure valve rod for the rally next weekend. I had dispensed with the cover and spring on the high pressure valve and obviously should have done so on the LP as well.

Oh well, at least I know what the problem is.

Tim


Last edited by Tim Watson on Sun 25 May 2014, 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Remembering about the funny noises from the exhaust during the run.)

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  highpressure on Mon 26 May 2014, 12:11 am

Like the linkage, might well have to give that a try, I really feel the roof should be on but the RL is even more of a pig to drive!! I feel quite sad about leaving the roof autside the trailer at most dos.

Interesting about the valve springs, talking to Les Searle (Bodacia etc) last week at Fawley ref timing etc he said most full size have some sort of spring to keep the valves in place otherwise you suffer from opeing the regulator up and steam going past the slack valve into both sides of the cylinder and locking it up!! I subsequently went back to the engine and put both of mine back on!!! It improves the starting and exhaust note no end. I also have used stainless M3 cap head bolts at about 10mm in length to stop the caps coming off, already done the bent valve rod trick at the second outing for His Majesty in front of Julia!!! Someone else suggested M3 studs then the cap cant actually fall of even if the nuts undo.

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  Tim Watson on Mon 26 May 2014, 12:36 am

Kevin
The cross braces on the RL roof may interfere with the current set up as I have it. You could move it behind the rear roof column by drilling a new hole in the bunker, if the cross braces were essential.

I've posted on Traction Talk about valve springs, so it'll be interesting to see what concensus is.

Tim

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  highpressure on Mon 26 May 2014, 9:19 am

I havent actually got the rear braces on anyhow so that wont be an issue.

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Remote regulator

Post  Steve Traill on Mon 26 May 2014, 1:19 pm

The set up looks great, should give plenty of fine adjustment. When I was thinking about it I envisaged the remote lever being horizontal though. Looks the part though & leaves the manstNd area pretty clear.

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  bjwlancashire on Tue 27 May 2014, 3:51 am

Tim

Nice work on the regulator extension, still not don mine but the regulator is still stiff as I need to get the front regulator rod hole opened up properly, a job for this week before our birthday bash this weekend. The size of the new handle is a good idea to give some finer control as a scale handle does not work with the physics of the regulator and the opening.

Regarding the sprung holders I took mine off pretty soon as I had read Kev's post about them coming off. The only thing that can happen is if you are rolling down hill with the regulator closed and need to pull the reverser back to stop the engine will not react if the valve had fallen away from the valve face. It did it to me once and surprised me the first time. It has not happened since but I suspect the engine is run in now and the mating faces are making the valve cling to the valve face with the oil on the surface helping it to be sucked down.

Brian

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A Marmite steering knob: love it or hate it?

Post  Tim Watson on Tue 27 May 2014, 5:07 pm

As already posted, I have extended the steering on "Frederick", which does help to make for more comfortable driving. However, the steering handle is only really OK if you're a 1/3rd scale midget, but not for my size 71/2" mitts. The solution is a more comfortable steering knob. I have therefore made a pile of brass swarf this evening and turned up a taller and much more bulbous handle.



Now I don't think one could claim that this appendage is blessed in the appearance stakes, but there is no doubt that it will be a godsend when it comes to steering, as it fits comfortably into the palm of your hand. Effectively you will use the knob to steer with, which has the added bonus of moving it yet closer to the steersman. For show purposes, it is only a five minute job to change back to the scale handle, but it is kind of lost against the brass of the steering wheel anyway.

I like Marmite BTW.

Tim

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  highpressure on Wed 28 May 2014, 4:07 am

Having driven until the palm of my left hand is sore from the "sticky out bit" I would happily give this space, even more so if I carry out the regulator addition and have the roof on, it will not really be noticed.

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  Tim Watson on Sun 01 Jun 2014, 4:54 pm

The new regulator linkage was 100% successful, whilst the steering knob was a great help at our St Albans Rally. I went to bed with no neck ache and accompanying headache. The engine generated outside the beer tent for two and half hours on the Saturday night. The pressure gauge stayed glued at 175 psi and she used very little water and coal. Much appreciated by those who leant on her roof supping beer as they watched the engine at work.

Very satisfying.

Tim

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Is it a Ford or a Burrell?

Post  Tim Watson on Sun 08 Jun 2014, 3:52 pm

Photo taken today crossing the River Mimram on the way to Codicote via Wheathampstead from St Albans, on a 17 mile round trip to the rally at Codicote. The route was very hilly and we nearly burnt a bag of coal and boiled far more water than normal for a road run. Average speed was 4.2 mph. Note the special panama with flashing beacon attached.



The new regulator has become absolutely essential for road running, as can be seen in this photo as the engine was just pulling away from the ford



Tim

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  the governer on Mon 09 Jun 2014, 9:32 am

Excellent Tim, I think you should speak to Dean and Steve, about including the special hat in the kits, it has to be an absolute must, for safety whilst roading!

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  bjwlancashire on Tue 10 Jun 2014, 10:32 am

Great run I hope Tim, any video footage from anyone? Are you doing the NTET road run in September? If you are what route will you be doing? I do fancy the 28 mile circuit with lunch half way as our engines have the pace in the flatter countryside of Bedfordshire Razz

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  Tim Watson on Tue 10 Jun 2014, 10:38 am

Brian
I've put down for the 28 mile NTET run: as you say, I think this is quite do-able with a lot of work in third wheel. Quite a bit of the weekend run was in second wheel, as much for the braking as for the power. The engine was certainly running a lot better after than before, so I think she's at last beginning to settle down and reach her potential.

Whether Steve's and my bottoms will withstand 28 miles remains to be seen.

Tim

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28 mile run

Post  Steve Traill on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 11:15 am

I must remember to bring a cushion!! Really looking forward to it.

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Local gala

Post  Tim Watson on Sun 22 Jun 2014, 12:54 pm

On Saturday, 'Frederick' was giving rides at the local gala celebrating 900 years of the Sandridge parish. It was a glorious, quintessentially British, affair with lots of quirky entertainment that ran well into the evening. We were giving trailer rides from 1430 - 1800 and made over 112 in donations for Parkinson's UK- probably our best takings yet. Young 'steamtractionlover' (Stephen) was with us learning how an engine works.

People were amazed at how quiet the engine is - especially on dead slow tick over - and totally confused as to how it is powered: I suppose having "electrically powered" written on the canopy sides is not overly straightforward from an educational standpoint.

A really good fun day.

Tim

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

Post  bjwlancashire on Mon 23 Jun 2014, 2:38 am

Well done Tim and if you had the weather we were having while at Levens Hall yesterday you would have been pretty hot at the weekend, like a sauna under the full size engine canopy. Well done for inviting the newbie along too, you are a great instructor (like Declan) and I am sure he has learnt more in one day than he had so far previously.
Blackbeard is similarly quite and receives lots of compliments, even from the other builders that came to our party.

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Re: Frederick SRL(S)

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